THE GAS WAR

[buscar]

Here is an idea (if we all stick together) that might just work.

The GAS WAR is on, there is no doubt about it, so why not join the resistances. Not with bombs like the terrorist (using violence) , but with a secret weapon that will drive the gas prices from what I hear is going to hit close to $4.00 a gallon DOWN to as CHEAP at $1.50 -$1.75 per gallon.

We need to take some INTELLIGENT action to TEACH the oil companies a LESSON they WON’T soon forget…right in the POCKETBOOK.

This idea makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the “DON’T buy on a certain day”… a DUMB campaign that was circulating around last April or May.

To pull something like this (since we all rely on our cars), would only be hurting ourselves, and more of an inconvenience than the problem of the high gas prices that now exists…besides, the oil companies would only sit back and laugh.

Here’s HOW we CAN have an IMPACT on gas prices if we ALL act together to FORCE a PRICE war without hurting ourselves.

For the REST of this year, DON'T purchase ANY gasoline from the two biggest
companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL…If they are not selling any
gas, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their
prices, the other companies will have to follow suit.

If we don’t take SERIOUS action NOW…by next summer and the GAS PRICES might go higher!!

It’s worth your consideration…so why not beat them at their own game.

buscar

[JIM HAMRICK]

I don't know how what you suggest would work. From figures I have seen in the media the profit from a gallon of gas is only 8 cents+/- per gallon for the oil companies.

There have been estimates of at least 100 years of petroleum reserves within the U.S. and its territorial waters. I would suggest that the cowards in congress who will not stand up for the people against the environmentalists and allow drilling in new fields is the reason for the high price of gas. If congress had allowed drilling in Alaska when requested by Presedent Bush we would today be getting a large part of our oil from there and not purchased from O.P.E.C. If any of you think that I am just a Bush supporter you would be wrong. I did not vote for him and do not like many things he has done his term, but I believe that we should blame congress, both the Democrats and Republicans.

If any of you old-timers remember back in the fifties there were test wells drilled in the east valler near Apache Junction and/or Florence Junction but no oil was found. There were rumors of natural gas being found but as I recall these wells capped and left.

Jim Hamrick

[Joe Ribaudo]

If the oil companies are not gouging us, can someone explain why they are having record PROFITS. I would also like to know the justification for
the price of diesel.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[Sam Brannan]

buscar,

That's a good idea. Count me in. I'll start passing the word. The only thing I wonder is how much of their profits do they make overseas?


Joe,

Check this out:

http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/whats ... l_oil.html

I think diesel is the distillate fuel oil, which means there's 3 times as much gas as diesel produced per barrel. That might give them some kind of supply-demand bullsh!t excuse.


Jim,

Last I heard, the problem with the high prices was due to a lack of refining capacity. I think around two dozen refinerys have been shut down during our buddy Bush's watch, while no new ones have been built to replace them. Last year Shell closed their refinery in Bakersfield claiming there wasn't enough Kern county crude to kept it going. Chevron said they had plenty of reserves in Kern county and tried to buy it. Shell said it wasn't for sale and immediately started to demolish it.

My idea was to build new refinerys on the militay bases the gov't has closed. That would increase refining capacity, help to lower gas prices, provide jobs for the communities hard hit by the base closings and the profits could be used to shore up Social Security without raising taxes or increasing FICA withholding. With two oil men running the gov't, I'm not holding my breath though...

Sam Brannan

[JIM HAMRICK]

I don't think we can lay the problem at any administration's doorstep, if what I recall is correct, this trend started during the Kennedy-Johnson presidency. When I was in highschool in Florence a company wanted to build a refinery there but the town's people were against it. At Mobile Arizona they have been trying to get a refinery there for many years but this has been an on-going battle. The laws enacted by congress have made it very hard to start up independent refrineries, this along with the people saying "not in my backyard" have suppressed the erection of refineries needed today.

We have much of the population not wanting refineries built near them and tough rules and regulations aginst new plants are a problem but I still say that this is a failure of congress.

Jim Hamrick

[Sam Brannan]

Kennedy??? How you figure?

[Joe Ribaudo]

Sam,

You have made a major mistake! Never ask a question that you don't already know the answer to, on this Forum.

There are a good many books on the de-regulation of natural gas prices/gas taxs during the Kennedy-Johnson Era. Jim is correct. The "trend" really started then and in a major way.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[bill711]

In 1973 to 75 Opec was formed and went on strike for more money for oil. If you will think back over time we have had in this country some people who felt guilty because we were not paying enough for oil. Remember those people always yaping about how much urope was paying 3 and 4 dollers for a gallon of gas? sure you can, Kerry, the spotted al tree bore, and Kennedy. Americans were just not paying enough they said, we were driving two big a cars and our pick ups were just wasting gas.. REMEMBER. THINK! NOW We bring it up to about 1998 BILL CLINTON admitted on the T.V. that had his rep. go over to the suadia,s and asked them to raise the price of crude oil? Remember we were only paying 11.00 a barrel of crude oil? The Suadia,s raised the price and it soared to over 33.00 and then 43.00 dollers a barrel? CLINTON was prancing around on T.V. that he would have been happy and satisfied if the price of a barrel was only about 25.00 a barrel? Remember? When oil was 11.00 a barrel the oil co.s made 8 cents for a gallon of gas; Now they are still earning the same 8 cents a gallon of gas! YES they are running a full capacity an are making record profits now at the 8 cents a gallon. BUT the king of Suadia arabia say,s even if he sold us more crude that we have no way of refining it since we are running full capacity. NOW you have the chinese coming on stong with a market for oil and gas. India have also come on strong for oil and gas too. HERE in America we havent built a refinery in over 30 yr,s. We cannot build dam,s anymore. We can,t drill for oil in alaska, even tho there is a place alotted for drilling there. We can,t drill off the coast of cal. even tho there a great reserve there. We cannot drill off the Florida because of the so called evirment. REMEMBER how california shit her pants a couple of yr,s ago because they did not have electic power? Remember how they blamed the Texan,s for their shortage and price guaging when the Texans said they didn,t have elec. power to spare the president was brought into it to make them supply elec. below their cost to cal. we in Tex. and Ok. paid for it.. We in Ok. also had to pay higher for our elect. because of the cal. problem that they will not deal with. They have done nothing to improve their lot! IN FREE interprise on the market crude oil is a big speculation; it is bought and sold many times before it gets to the U.S. of A. AT this time we also had the louisana refinery has been down too. This problem is a combination of many things. There is also some GREED too. BUT we are also guilty for NOT being PREPARED and letting the liberals have their way with the so called evironment. NOW it,s like the illegle alien problem even the republicans are supporting it to get re-elected... What can we do? Hell I don,t know? People like KERRY and Al Gore will have you riding a bike to work while they ride in streech limo,s and go places in their private jets and complain about what little gas you use to cook with. While they fly to france for breakfast. Barbra Strisand asked the weman in america to save power and dry their laundry on a clothes line? DO you really think that she will dry HER bloomers on the clothes line too? AL Gore has never rode in anything but a limo in all his life? unless it was when he run for president and he was trying to show us he was a man too if you will beleive it. Teddy Kennedy a sot has his history too. need I say more? bill WE HAVE BEEN BESIEGED BY COMMUNIST WHO WANT TO DESTROY OUR COUNTRY! THE NEWS MEDIA ARE GOING RIGHT ALONG WITH THEM TOO!

[Sam Brannan]

Joe,

Now you tell me!!!

Thanks for the enlightenment on the Kennedy connection, I've never heard that. It must have been on the TV during one of our 'rolling' blackouts.

Wow, people here sh!t all over California, but I make one little joke about Texas...

Sam Brannan

[Sam Brannan]

Bill

Don't blame me. The summer the blackouts hit I was living up at the claim. My electricity came from one of these:


Sorry the picture isn't any better, but I didn't have a digital camera in those days, so I stole this pic from the website. I had it set up with 110 feet of head and at max it put out 1200 watts on about 7 Gal/Min. That was enough to run my lights, fan, radio and electric ice chest; hot weather be damned! During the day I had it switched to a 15 gal electric RV water heater, so after a day of dredging in the creek I had a HOT shower. The big pain in the ass was driving 35 miles one way over 4 wheel-drive roads to get more beer.

Sam Brannan

[Joe Ribaudo]

Sam,

My Grandfather's name was, Sam Huston Stoker. He was "born under a
a Mesquite bush at Crowell, Texas". Much of my mother's side of the family lived in Gainesville.

Sam and Bessie Stoker were pioneers in the town of Ramona, CA I spent a good many years in that town, surrounded by family. California was a bit different in those days.

We go to Riverside, CA every year for Christmas, but I can't wait to get out of there.

No one here is surprised that you don't like a few of the Texas politicians,
so you should feel right at home over there. Everyone's opinion is welcome here, as far as I am concerned, but you may find a number of dlie-hard conservatives on the site.

It's always good to hear the other guys side. Don't be fooled by the form of some of the posts here. There are some very well informed okies lurking around.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[bill711]

The only thing wrong with GUU is he,s too soft. He wants to be liked. We do not need that in this time and place! For example: Bill Clintonoid went over and became a advocate for arabian penencula He was the one who rail roaded the PORT deal thru, When it came out , the media asked GW about it; he says he didn,t know anything about it and he would look into it, The media makes fun of BUSH for not knowing about it! The Hildibeast starts haranging Bush over the deal, she,s running for president you know, anyway she and the media are running BUSH down for doing the deal and then it,s found out that is was a BILL Clintonoid bussiness deal! He was getting 500,000 dollars for getting it thru. Is this a shadow government? Let,s see bill get,s 500,000- BUSH get,s the blame-Hillery runs BUSH down for it. that what come down folks. It,s like the chinese sell out folks. I am a registard Democrat BUT I am a CONSERVATIVE person. bill OH YES The Vincente Fox hit up BUSH to grant Social Scurity for the mexicans who work or worked in the U.S.A. I don,t know if he got it yet. These people who advocate all this freedom for foreigners will never have to live with their crap BUT me and you will....

[bill711]

OH yeah; I forgot to say: The Clintonoid got the deal approved by 6-7 departmental heads without the bush adminastration knowing anything about it! how could this happen unless shadow government? NOW how are the big oil making record profits at the same 8 cents a gallon? At 70.00 dollars a barrel they can afford to refine their own high cost to extract crude that would not have payed before. FOR example: With gold at 200.00 an ounce you cannot afford to operate your gold mine at a loss; BUT at 300.00 dollars an ounce you can reopen your mine an operate at a real good profit, this helps with the hard time that you,ve had in the past. YOU cannot operate your refinery at 200.00 an ounce but you can at 300.00 an ounce.. understand? WE also have capped gas wells all over our area but they just cap them until they are needed! OR it will pay to extract the gas out of them! DUE to the SPOTTED AL TREE BORE doing his crap after the election and then 9-11 happened; the bush administation never replaced the CLINTONOID people. The CIA is at WAR with the BUSH asministration too. THEY do not like having their crap and their failuers pointed out like the Arizona senator John Mclain. THEY all want to be country club washingto insiders, sitting on their usless fatass behinds at tax payer expense. Hope this helps some? bill P.S. the oil comp. gives you oil at 8 cents a gallon -fedral gov. gets abt. 20 cents a gallon they give you nothing in return.-your state gets abt. 35 cents a gallon and is supposed to give you a decent highway! ?

[JIM HAMRICK]

Bill I agree with much of what you say. We have, in my opinion, lost the country you and I was born and have allowed an alien goverment (read as a shadow goverment) to take over. What country are leaving to our grandkids?

I puzzle in my mind as to the reason that this should be. The children of our greatest generation are rapidly pushing us into become a second rate country where the poverty of the third world will be encroaching on their standard of living.

Having worked on major highways is this state for 33 or so I do believe we have some of the best roads in the west. Politics is a large factor in the location and cost of these roads but despite of this I have helped build some great highways.

I am not sure that this forum should be used for political comment so after having my say I will try not to post anything political again. I do have many unresolved questions about the "Lost Dutchman" and this site is a great place find what others are saying or thinking on this subject.

Jim Hamrick

[Joe Ribaudo]

Jim,

This is what this part of the LDM Forum is for:

"General Info and Help
Use this forum for any questions or information that is not related directly to LDM. Leave the Lost Dutchman forum for only disussions about the LDM".

Bill has placed his comments in the correct place, and we are all following the plan, as laid out by the management of the Forum.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[Sam Brannan]

Joe,

I missed your last post because I was up in the hills having a look see. I found a pretty good place to dig, but I'm going to have a hard time working the shovel, since the gas to get up there cost me an arm and a leg. 91 octane is $3.799 in the hills. It's almost enough to make me get rid of the old Power Wagon and buy a damn toyota.

That's impressive about your grandparents being two of the founders of Ramona. All kinds of lost mines not too far from there. I never spent too much time in Riverside, but it didn't seem all that bad. I think I'd rather live there than Laughlin.

Don't get the wrong idea about me. I'm not some kind of left wing, tree huggin', fag lovin', liberal socialist. I'm actually a registered republican. I haven't voted that way since I voted for Daddy Bush the first time around. Back then I was living in Tucson and making $45k/yr. By the time he came up for reelection, I was unemployed, back in CA and trying to find a job in the depths of HW's recession which produced a 17+% unemployment rate out here. Those were some scary times. The main thing I remember was HW sitting on his hands for almost a year saying "The economy's fine, there's no recession" before he finally admitted the economy was in the toilet and something had to be done. He sure as hell didn't give a damn about me, so why should I vote for him.

The big problem I have with the republicans now, is that they feel the democrats are complete idiots that have nothing intelligent to say and therefore the party should be wiped out. I will NEVER support a party that seems bound and determined to eliminate the 2 party system. History has shown us that road leads to tyranny. So I currently vote democratic, not because I entirely agree with their platform, but because they're the lesser of two evils.

Sam Brannan

[Joe Ribaudo]

Hi Sam,

That's quite a confession.

Your mistake, as I see it, is being in denial. You are not a Republican. Makes no difference that you regester as one, you are a Democrat.
You have alligned yourself with folks like Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean, John Kerry, The Clintons and the rest of the (obvious) enemies of the people.

I will be the first to admit that there is a lot that the Republicans are doing that I find despicable. but if you voted for John Kerry, there is no going back. That worm is a self aggrandizing coward.

Every politician owes someone something and George Bush is no exception. We picked the right man to take this fight to the right enemies.
Is he making mistakes, you bet he is, but he was the best choice we had.

If a Republican gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar, or is accused of some serious misconduct, nine times out of ten, he will step down for the good of the country. Same scenario for a Democrat and he will hang on to his job and drag us all into the dirt. Happens almost every time.

You sleep with dogs, you wake up with fleas.

You are making excuses why you are in California. My guess is that you are comfortable there. Nothing wrong with the economy in Phoenix. For that matter, nothing wrong with it in the entire country right now. If Daddy Bush had been able to keep his word on taxs, his economy would have been good to.

Just what are the Republicans doing to create a one party system? Something the Democrats didn't do when they were in power? They're
all idiots and assholes. Come election day, they say: Which asshole you want, this asshole or that asshole. Got to pick the one that will do the least damage and see us through the worst trouble. We did that.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

[bill711]

Sorry Sam But Joe called it just the way it is! Sam all in the hell that was wrong with the economy under GH Bush is the stupid people me, you and Joe let our selves be fooled by the liberals and their
aLLIES in the NEWS MEDIA fool us into thinking that things were real bad and we were scared shitless to spend money to keep the economy moving! I was layed off too, I got plenty of TV time. Every day all day and nite it was a constant barrage 24 hrs. a day about how bad the economy was. Remember when the Clintonoid took over and everyone was asking him what he was going to do about the economy? He said he had looked at it and he could see nothing wrong with it? That it was alot better shape than they had thought? Remember? Remeber when the G H Bush signed the tax raise that the lib,s used against him that the senate and the congress was controlled BY the LIB,S. and that they were going to OVER RIDE his VETO of the TAX RAISE ? He did not sign on the tax raise because he wanted too! The LIBERALS are out to ruin the country and replace it with communism. What else could we go to? SAM you have the pheasant attitude, now did you ask daddy bill what he could do for you? Did you say please please please? I lived and worked in Ark. where where the Clintonoid came from and was Govner. He didn,t do anything except raise the tax on everthing. When he left the state the economy was in the tank. The stupid people would vote him in and 3 months later would be cussing him for raising taxes and lying to them BUT when it came time to vote again They would vote for the sob again rather than vote republican? I would ask them why and remind them what he done before and they would reply well my DADDY told me to all ways to vote for the democrat and the little man ---... and so on. YOU got caught up in a hard time in the economy in cal. alot of the bussinass were going over seas because of your HIGH ASSED TAXES they can do business at a little more profit over there. Some do it because that,s where their market for products is. A bussines is just that A BUSINSS -it does not owe you anything-it pays you to do something and when it does not need it done any more it does not need you! A BUSINESS is not a welfare unit if it does not make a profit, it goes OUT OF BUSINESS! enough said. Think sam Think and remember!!! bill P.S. Sam a business can not go and tax you so it can stay in business? it,s quit,s it,s functioning...

[Sam Brannan]

Joe,

Sorry I pissed you off. I was afraid that would happen. You said in an earlier post that it's always good to hear the other guy's side. I tell my side and it seems to enrage you.

The last straw that caused me to leave Tucson was when I received my first job offer in 2 months of looking and the guy told me it pays $3.00 an hour. I said "that's not even minimum wage" to which he said "if you don't take it, somebody else will." That's my "excuse" for leaving Arizona.

Was that a smart decision? No. What I found in California was far worse. I stood in line several times with hundreds of other people just trying to get a job at McDonald's, because that's all that was available. I saw a guy bust out the front window of a store with a brick, and then sit down on the curb and wait for the cops to arrest him. When the cops arrived, all he said was "has the jail served dinner yet?" People in the Bay Area panhandled enough money to buy a monthly bus pass and then rode the same route all night so they could sleep in the back of the bus. Crime here was rampant, yes those were scary times. My problem with HW was not that the recession happened, but that he did nothing about it for so long.

You ask what the republicans are doing to create a one party system. How about Schwarzenegger's 100 million dollar special election to ban labor unions from contributing money to political campaigns. His proposed law said nothing about big business' campaign contributions. If they're not trying to wipe out the democrats, then why are they trying to eliminate their largest source of campaign funds?

You say "they're all idiots and assholes." I assume you're talking about both sides, if so, you'll get no argument from me. The current crop of democrats are no FDR, but likewise the current crop of republicans are no Ronald Regan. Remember him, he was the last great republican, and a Californian as I recall.

Sam Brannan

[Sam Brannan]

Bill,

I used to work as a machinist. The owner of the shop I worked for got in a big piss-out with his largest customer over the prices he was charging for the parts we made for him. $65/ hr is what he was charging for shop time. The customer wanted it lowered to $60. My boss was paying us an average of around $12/ hr. Benefits amounted to about $4/ hr. My boss employed 29 machinists and was grossing about $1450/ hr. My guess is he was netting $1000/ hr (probably more). Both owners were making BIG money. Taxes had nothing to do with the fight, greed is what was fueling this battle. The customer finally said the hell with you, I'm outsourcing my parts to Taiwan. Initially 20 machinists got laid off. Luckily, I wasn't among them.

I was friends with a couple of the assemblers at the customer's company. In talking to them, I found out their boss sent the parts to three different shops in Taiwan. Over the next six months, the shops in Taiwan must have got together and compared prints for all of the customers parts. Somehow the chinese must have got a hold of one of the finished products and figured out how it was assembled and where all the parts went. Suddenly the three Taiwanese shops went out of business, packed up and moved and a chinese version of the customer's product appeared on the market at a cost of about 50% of what the customer was charging for it. The customer and my boss patched up their differences and we started making parts for him again.

It was too late, the cat was out of the bag. Within a year the customer's company went belly up and 40 or so assemblers were laid off. The customer is a rich bastard and won't want for anything the rest of his life. Too bad I can't say the same for his employees.

You can tell the world that it's taxes that's at the root of all evil, but I believe that GREED is the greater evil.

Sam Brannan

[don]

havent we all just got to realise that weve got to use our automobiles less-and that fuel tax is just 1 way of making us do that? its not that there isnt plenty of oil ,its because the rate that it can be extracted is nt fast enough to cope with the demand.thats not even including the obvious pollution issue ,which the world will have to deal with sooner or later in a MEANINGFUL way.
as for the political issue,the prob in my view is -not whether its democrats or republicans...bush or kerry...its largely irrelevant .they are both scumbags.the prob is none of them have any principles,they all vow to make it a better world for everyone,but in truth they only work for themselves and their wallets.while this present "administration" is no doubt the most extreme ,right wing and reactionary gov ever known in americas history it is in some ways a good thing cos its made the general public realise that democracy in america isnt sacrosanct. it can,as in hitlers germany be replaced by fascism,a situation that is getting ever nearer as we speak.maybe bynext election time the message will have sunk in....didnt eisenhower warnthe american public decades ago to beware of the military-industrial -political alliance? cant recall his exact phrase ,his message was ignored ,now the price is being paid. as for the recessions, the next1 will be unimaginable...wats the present deficit ? and growing ever larger thanks to the insane iraq adventure...and isnt it ironic that the richest country in the worlds deficit is financed by the worlds poorer peoples personal savings?
commie loving, fag, scum liberal, has by now become the standard description of anyone who disafgrees with any of this crazy governments policies.......its how hitler began ...and everyone knows how that ended.

[don]

theres a request to update my email address.....if someone could tell me how ,id gladly do it.

[JIM HAMRICK]

I said that I would not post any more political comments but I an going back on my word. This in response to Don's post of 5-5-06.

Don I am a registered democrat and have been since the days of L.B.J. My assessment of the current adminstration is that it is further to the left than Kennedy's. To say that this adminstration is the most extreme right wing reactionary goverment known to man indicates that you have never been exposed to trully right wing ideas. My idea of a true right wing party is the Libertarian party where they want no or extremly limited goverment. This may sound great but it is unworkable.

When politics are discussed I refer to myself as a "Cal Bois" democrat. This is to establish a time frame where my politics come from and too make people say "what the hell" does that mean. I am waiting for an administration that says America comes first before any other country and our pople are at the head of the line for any largess of the goverment. I do not see any major candidate expostulating this, as all seem to want to put the rest of the world first.

Jim Hamrick
.

[bill711]

Jim; hubba hubba, Right on Right on bro. YOU hit it on the noodle Jim. We need to gather the illegles up a few at a time, and send them back, We need to photo them and fingure print, and dna them. When we send them back we make it plain to them if they are found in the USA illegle again they will be put in leg chaines and worked hard for the states for 5 yrs. and then sent back to where ever . If anyone is caught hiring them without proper ID,s they will be fined and put in jail for 5 yrs,. period... WE can take our country back if we enforce our laws. IF any sceaming commie lib,s start their crap gather them up and sent them too; to a country of their choice. hell enough is enough... bill

[JIM HAMRICK]

Bill 711 I am not sure that I completly agree with with what you are saying but we should take care of this nation before any other. I believe that one should take care of his family first, his neigbor second then his nation before we take on supporting the rest of the world. I do not want to take your money and I don't want you taking mine in the form of taxes. Taxes should be only a minor expenditure in the family budget and should be at a minimum unless we as a nation see a compling reason for reason for raising them.

Jim Hamrick