Seems to me, there used to be a poll asking which part of the Superstitions will finally prove to be the location of the LDM, assuming it's ever found. I believe the largest percentage of responders put it in the west end of the range.
Using a north/south running line that goes through Weavers Needle and an east /west running line that seperates Maricopa and Pinal Counties to divide up the range, let's debate the pro's and con's.
Since I have never searched for Jacob's mine but have researched most of the available information, I have always had a favorite area. Having said that, I can make a good argument for any of the four sections above.
As I have stated many times before, I believe that the LDM is a worked out hole in the ground which was found some time ago by better men than us.
That frees me up to tell you some of the many reasons I would choose the south/west corner of the four sections.
I have always felt that the farther we get from the date of Jacob Waltz's death, the farther we get from the truth. So I tend to go back to the beginning.
Julia Thomas and Rhiney made their first attempt to enter the mountains at Hog Canyon. Failing in that, they entered at First Water the next trip.
There were only the two of them to begin with.
The information in the newspaper article, which must have come from one of those two, stated: "It's location is supposed to be a short distance back from the western end of the main Superstition mountain".
The directions which Adolph Ruth carried, came from a P.C. Bicknell article which probably came from an interview with Julia. When Bicknell searched for the LDM, he camped at Willow Spring.
When Brownie Holms decided to make a methodical search for the mine, he started on the main mountain.
Despite the area that Bark and Ely did most of their searching in, he believed the mine was in that south/west corner of the range.
There are so many more points in favor of that section, that I could be up for hours listing them.
You are all knowledgeable about this legend, so you don't need to argue for the area you believe it is in, but listening to all the pro's and con's for each area may just give you a better appreciation for the others out there.
If you misstate the evidence.....expect to be called on it. There are folks here who know this subject forward and backwards. If you don't know the evidence for places, other than your favorite, you are missing a big chunk of the enjoyment of this search.
I will be happy to provide sources for anything I say here.
Joe Ribaudo
WHY THE WEST END?
I think a case could be made easily for the Northwest, Northeast and Southwest areas. In each of these areas there has been activity past and present. Being able to understand what it all means has been probably the biggest problem. From Marsh Valley to Peters Mesa and north there is obvious proof that there was extended mining at some time. The same can be said for the western edge of Superstition mountain.
Dating the timbers from Magills shaft would have given us a reference point of sorts. It is unfortunate that the historical perspective has only dominated the last 10 years or so.
Though it is but an example I will use Magills pit as an example of where the LDM could be. It is obvious that Magill found something. That the discovery has been discredited is a shame. There is a very good chance that Magill had a Peralta mine and regardless of your favorite number, it can begin a process of elimination.
First, there is nothing to say that the pit Magill found was not the LDM. There is always the good chance that the mine has been worked out. A number of clues such as south of the red hills and a ledge above a north/south canyon fit. More impressive is the fact that the site was found within a short time using Ruths maps. Adolph Ruths body was found almost directly accross from this site. Whether you agree with what the maps pertain to, it is an impressive feat.
The caliche, the timbers, the funnel shape and the tunnel/cave below fit the description. You could even make an argument for the gulch on the lower approach.
Possibly it was the closest anyone has been to the LDM.
Of course the lack of Gold turned the entire situation on its head and some latecomers who invested changed the depiction of Magill and his expedition forever.
Such mining activity tells us there was substantial work done in the area around Bluff Springs and Black Top Mesa. Chances are after those areas were worked the miners moved on. But in what order and where were they at the time of the massacre is what is important to us.
The areas to the far north and central to the western edge may have been smaller groups at other times. The main group seems to have settled in the central mountains. Which group was massacred ?
Of course the LDM may have been just opened and there was limited activity in the area before they were driven out. That could mean the mine lies in the south east quadrant of the western half. Herman, Rhinehart and John Cunning are among those who searched that area.
The boardhouse clue is as good as we can hope for and shows the lack of insight with Julia and party on their initial trips. They had no idea of the makeup of the mountains and literally just jumped in at the nearest point.
As the searchers became more familiar with the mountains they moved further west. As with most of us they saw clues everywhere and could not reconcile the clues.
There are 3 very specific areas I believe the mine could be in. One would be in the area of Pistol canyon. Another would be in the area just east of Picaho butte. The last I will keep to myself, to save myself ridicule more than preserve a secret.
Dating the timbers from Magills shaft would have given us a reference point of sorts. It is unfortunate that the historical perspective has only dominated the last 10 years or so.
Though it is but an example I will use Magills pit as an example of where the LDM could be. It is obvious that Magill found something. That the discovery has been discredited is a shame. There is a very good chance that Magill had a Peralta mine and regardless of your favorite number, it can begin a process of elimination.
First, there is nothing to say that the pit Magill found was not the LDM. There is always the good chance that the mine has been worked out. A number of clues such as south of the red hills and a ledge above a north/south canyon fit. More impressive is the fact that the site was found within a short time using Ruths maps. Adolph Ruths body was found almost directly accross from this site. Whether you agree with what the maps pertain to, it is an impressive feat.
The caliche, the timbers, the funnel shape and the tunnel/cave below fit the description. You could even make an argument for the gulch on the lower approach.
Possibly it was the closest anyone has been to the LDM.
Of course the lack of Gold turned the entire situation on its head and some latecomers who invested changed the depiction of Magill and his expedition forever.
Such mining activity tells us there was substantial work done in the area around Bluff Springs and Black Top Mesa. Chances are after those areas were worked the miners moved on. But in what order and where were they at the time of the massacre is what is important to us.
The areas to the far north and central to the western edge may have been smaller groups at other times. The main group seems to have settled in the central mountains. Which group was massacred ?
Of course the LDM may have been just opened and there was limited activity in the area before they were driven out. That could mean the mine lies in the south east quadrant of the western half. Herman, Rhinehart and John Cunning are among those who searched that area.
The boardhouse clue is as good as we can hope for and shows the lack of insight with Julia and party on their initial trips. They had no idea of the makeup of the mountains and literally just jumped in at the nearest point.
As the searchers became more familiar with the mountains they moved further west. As with most of us they saw clues everywhere and could not reconcile the clues.
There are 3 very specific areas I believe the mine could be in. One would be in the area of Pistol canyon. Another would be in the area just east of Picaho butte. The last I will keep to myself, to save myself ridicule more than preserve a secret.
-
Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
The Massacre Site
Wayne,
Many of the stories may be just that.....stories. There is a good chance that the massacre, as we know it, is just another yarn. The number of people involved could easily grow with each telling, as could the details.
There are a number of artifacts close to the Massacre Grounds which show that gold ore was being worked in fairly good quanities. An arrastre or primitive ore crusher is one of those things. Nothing says that the ore that was worked there had to come from the interior of the Superstitions.
The Palmer Mine is the first thing that comes to mind, but not the only location that deserves consideration.
Who's to say that the people who were killed were not the workers that were processing the ore in those facilities?
Joe Ribaudo
Many of the stories may be just that.....stories. There is a good chance that the massacre, as we know it, is just another yarn. The number of people involved could easily grow with each telling, as could the details.
There are a number of artifacts close to the Massacre Grounds which show that gold ore was being worked in fairly good quanities. An arrastre or primitive ore crusher is one of those things. Nothing says that the ore that was worked there had to come from the interior of the Superstitions.
The Palmer Mine is the first thing that comes to mind, but not the only location that deserves consideration.
Who's to say that the people who were killed were not the workers that were processing the ore in those facilities?
Joe Ribaudo
-
Gene Reynolds
- Part Timer
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:09 pm
Magill
Zentull -
Though it is but an example I will use Magills pit as an example of where the LDM could be. It is obvious that Magill found something. That the discovery has been discredited is a shame. There is a very good chance that Magill had a Peralta mine and regardless of your favorite number, it can begin a process of elimination.
I swore I wouldn't get into this - but.......... Glenn did find an old mine. After it was all finally cleaned from the attempt to cover it up - some gold was found. It was so small though that it was not worth all the effort as far as returns per investment goes. It was more like a trace here and there.
You went on to say - More impressive is the fact that the site was found within a short time using Ruths maps. Adolph Ruths body was found almost directly accross from this site.
The question is - Do you know for sure where Ruth was found? I think further research will lead you to a different conclusion -
Glenn and I differed on the maps later on as more was uncovered with time and more work. If you use more reasoning and logic alone with all the right clues - I think you might come to a different understanding.
Simply put = retrace you're steps to where he parked his butt, and think a little - the man was in his 70's - - he was no where near B.Springs. - Glenn found out too late.................
Good Luck.
Gene
Though it is but an example I will use Magills pit as an example of where the LDM could be. It is obvious that Magill found something. That the discovery has been discredited is a shame. There is a very good chance that Magill had a Peralta mine and regardless of your favorite number, it can begin a process of elimination.
I swore I wouldn't get into this - but.......... Glenn did find an old mine. After it was all finally cleaned from the attempt to cover it up - some gold was found. It was so small though that it was not worth all the effort as far as returns per investment goes. It was more like a trace here and there.
You went on to say - More impressive is the fact that the site was found within a short time using Ruths maps. Adolph Ruths body was found almost directly accross from this site.
The question is - Do you know for sure where Ruth was found? I think further research will lead you to a different conclusion -
Glenn and I differed on the maps later on as more was uncovered with time and more work. If you use more reasoning and logic alone with all the right clues - I think you might come to a different understanding.
Simply put = retrace you're steps to where he parked his butt, and think a little - the man was in his 70's - - he was no where near B.Springs. - Glenn found out too late.................
Good Luck.
Gene
Writer of Borrego 13
-
Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
If Not You......?
Gene,
For many of us, the LDM has just been a fun "hobby". Some "Dutch Hunters" have never stepped foot into the Superstitions yet know more about the details of the legends and the history that surrounds them than many "experts".
Without your input, we are all being deprived of information from a unique perspective. Right now, you are the only man, that I know of, who had a personal relationship with Glenn Magill and is posting on this Forum.
Your not getting "into this" creates a void that can never be filled after you are gone. Much like Borrego 13 wasting away on your computer files, your voice needs to be heard.
Once again, I would urge you to share your experiences with Glenn, and the conclusions that were formed through that friendship. By the same token, I believe you know more about Adolph Ruth, and his family, than anyone else who still has the ability to post on this Forum.
Like you, I have always believed that Adolp Ruth never left the parameters of West Boulder Canyon......under his own power.
Good to see that you are still mulling over the mystery.
Take care,
Joe
For many of us, the LDM has just been a fun "hobby". Some "Dutch Hunters" have never stepped foot into the Superstitions yet know more about the details of the legends and the history that surrounds them than many "experts".
Without your input, we are all being deprived of information from a unique perspective. Right now, you are the only man, that I know of, who had a personal relationship with Glenn Magill and is posting on this Forum.
Your not getting "into this" creates a void that can never be filled after you are gone. Much like Borrego 13 wasting away on your computer files, your voice needs to be heard.
Once again, I would urge you to share your experiences with Glenn, and the conclusions that were formed through that friendship. By the same token, I believe you know more about Adolph Ruth, and his family, than anyone else who still has the ability to post on this Forum.
Like you, I have always believed that Adolp Ruth never left the parameters of West Boulder Canyon......under his own power.
Good to see that you are still mulling over the mystery.
Take care,
Joe
I was speaking in terms where he was officially found in the photographs.
That was on the side of Black Top Mesa.
Part of my point was what are the odds that someone takes a map and through misinterpretation finds an abandoned Spanish mine at where X marks the spot?
What Magill accomplished in that space of time was pretty amazing.
Add in the fact that I had more knowledge of the interior of the mountains than he did when I was 12.
Whatever Gene would share should be appreciated by all interested in the LDM. I know of a number of us who were introduced to the lore by "The Killer Mountains" and anything Gene would relate is a treat for us all.
That was on the side of Black Top Mesa.
Part of my point was what are the odds that someone takes a map and through misinterpretation finds an abandoned Spanish mine at where X marks the spot?
What Magill accomplished in that space of time was pretty amazing.
Add in the fact that I had more knowledge of the interior of the mountains than he did when I was 12.
Whatever Gene would share should be appreciated by all interested in the LDM. I know of a number of us who were introduced to the lore by "The Killer Mountains" and anything Gene would relate is a treat for us all.
-
Gene Reynolds
- Part Timer
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:09 pm
ok -
Ok - I will do it - but it is another chapter or 2 that will be concensed to just the bottom line and what all was learned - remember - just the bottom line and no long how , when and whatever...........or how the conclusions were reached - it will take a few days because some things will have to be scaned. .... and there are more things that have to be found.........You have some short cuts though in the meantime......... look at the thing called where is the dutchman or something like that I started last year - I put some parts in it that is being overlooked - perhaps it needs to be reread more seriously...
Give me a couple of days----
Gene
Give me a couple of days----
Gene
Writer of Borrego 13
I'd love any Ruth info Gene has...Ruth is one of my fav "dutchman" topics, and I also believe he never left West Boulder on his own power. It would have been a hell of a feat for a man that old, in that heat, with that leg. Nearly impossible I presume.
Oh, dutchies mine is here
T10W
R7N
Oh, dutchies mine is here
T10W
R7N
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
-
Gene Reynolds
- Part Timer
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:09 pm
The Ruth clues
Gentlemen,
The following report will be started tonight, but will take several days to complete. I will ad more as I can gather it all - the end being that it will all lead to one place and that is - where Ruth spent his last days and why I believe this. You may a have a different opinion at the end - but this is where I would hunt going by what I have. Some of you will say, ( I NEW IT), and others will disagree....... But here it all before you decide....Also, keep in mind - That I did find the Peralta Shaft in Borrego. I have always felt this one can be found as well.
Here goes - some of this will come in chunks and pieces because I am not well enough to put it together for you as I did in the book.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"....Tex Barkley, did make a further search of that brushy ridge overlooking West
Boulder Canyon for the body of Adollph Ruth. Their search was successful. At a
considerable distance from the spot where the skull had been discovered, they
found a dismembered skeleton which was easily identified.......no Spanish map or
documents
as being how Ruth was brought into Willow Spring, a new story will begin to rise
out of the ashes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sorry -more later - can't find what I'm looking for
The following report will be started tonight, but will take several days to complete. I will ad more as I can gather it all - the end being that it will all lead to one place and that is - where Ruth spent his last days and why I believe this. You may a have a different opinion at the end - but this is where I would hunt going by what I have. Some of you will say, ( I NEW IT), and others will disagree....... But here it all before you decide....Also, keep in mind - That I did find the Peralta Shaft in Borrego. I have always felt this one can be found as well.
Here goes - some of this will come in chunks and pieces because I am not well enough to put it together for you as I did in the book.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"....Tex Barkley, did make a further search of that brushy ridge overlooking West
Boulder Canyon for the body of Adollph Ruth. Their search was successful. At a
considerable distance from the spot where the skull had been discovered, they
found a dismembered skeleton which was easily identified.......no Spanish map or
documents
as being how Ruth was brought into Willow Spring, a new story will begin to rise
out of the ashes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sorry -more later - can't find what I'm looking for
Writer of Borrego 13
-
Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Reasons
Randy,
While you gave us an area, you did not present the reasons that might lead someone to think the LDM could be found there. I would be inclined to be a little less specific, and just use the four sections I outlined to make a case for each one.
If I were making a case for your northwest section, it would include:
The mine that John Chunning worked and believed was the LDM was in that portion of the range.
Obie Stoker's claim was also there.....at Second Water.
Jennings lost lode, according to Jim Hatt, was also there.
You have Frank Fish (the map) , Chuck Aylor, Dale Howard, Barry Storm, Ed Piper, Chuck Ribaudo, Ernie Provence, Lake Erie Schaffer, Frank Peralta, Adolph Ruth, P.C. Bicknell, Jim Bark (to mention a few) and the Stone Maps leading you into that section.
You may notice that I have Jim Bark, Adolph Ruth and P.C. Bicknell in two of the sections. I belileve cases could be made for the northwest and southwest sections....as well as the others.
The history of those people and the two maps mentioned seem to make a fair argument for those areas.
Here is a little "unknown" tidbit" from "Uncle" Obie: In their search for the LDM, Obie had heard there was silver....close by. As you may have read here, he did find a silver mine just north of his claim. If you do a search of the topics, you will find the conversation. This is not something that Obie told many folks, but he may have told his partners.
Here is another "fact": The "Military Trail" continues north out of Boulder Basin towards Yellow Peak. Just below Yellow Peak, it turns in a westerly direction and then turns northwest. It runs very close to Obie's claim.
Seem's like all valid arguments for the LDM being in the northwest segement of the range.
That's how this topic is suppose to work. We argue the points for each segement and try to seperate the wheat from the chaff. I don't believe the LDM is in the area I just made an argument for, but it could be.
Joe Ribaudo
While you gave us an area, you did not present the reasons that might lead someone to think the LDM could be found there. I would be inclined to be a little less specific, and just use the four sections I outlined to make a case for each one.
If I were making a case for your northwest section, it would include:
The mine that John Chunning worked and believed was the LDM was in that portion of the range.
Obie Stoker's claim was also there.....at Second Water.
Jennings lost lode, according to Jim Hatt, was also there.
You have Frank Fish (the map) , Chuck Aylor, Dale Howard, Barry Storm, Ed Piper, Chuck Ribaudo, Ernie Provence, Lake Erie Schaffer, Frank Peralta, Adolph Ruth, P.C. Bicknell, Jim Bark (to mention a few) and the Stone Maps leading you into that section.
You may notice that I have Jim Bark, Adolph Ruth and P.C. Bicknell in two of the sections. I belileve cases could be made for the northwest and southwest sections....as well as the others.
The history of those people and the two maps mentioned seem to make a fair argument for those areas.
Here is a little "unknown" tidbit" from "Uncle" Obie: In their search for the LDM, Obie had heard there was silver....close by. As you may have read here, he did find a silver mine just north of his claim. If you do a search of the topics, you will find the conversation. This is not something that Obie told many folks, but he may have told his partners.
Here is another "fact": The "Military Trail" continues north out of Boulder Basin towards Yellow Peak. Just below Yellow Peak, it turns in a westerly direction and then turns northwest. It runs very close to Obie's claim.
Seem's like all valid arguments for the LDM being in the northwest segement of the range.
That's how this topic is suppose to work. We argue the points for each segement and try to seperate the wheat from the chaff. I don't believe the LDM is in the area I just made an argument for, but it could be.
Joe Ribaudo
-
Gene Reynolds
- Part Timer
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:09 pm
Just f..... great
I have been on here typing and adding to my original statements for 2 dam hours and had it all finished - the whole dam 2 page story and this this wouldn't let me preview it - so I lost the whole dam thing - the hell with this - I will be dam it I will do all this again - sorry - I'm gone
Gene
Gene
Writer of Borrego 13
Sorry to hear of the technical difficulties.....
I did receive Borrego 13 yesterday and would like to lay yet another compliment on a story well told. Kept me up last night and I reread the whole thing this morning. Too bad no one published the thing proper for you. It is an excellent companion piece to "The Killer Mountains".
Thank you again.
I did receive Borrego 13 yesterday and would like to lay yet another compliment on a story well told. Kept me up last night and I reread the whole thing this morning. Too bad no one published the thing proper for you. It is an excellent companion piece to "The Killer Mountains".
Thank you again.
Oh man, poor Gene. That kinda thing can drive a man to throw his computer out of the window...
Joe,
Those coordinates were a joke, obviously. I have no idea where they lead to, should be somewhere in Tempe though...haha. Just made that up.
Regarding your thread, I've heard/read arguments placing the mine all over those damn mountains. Everyone has a valid point, yet none have found it...or have they?
When I find it, I'll be sure to post here. You betcha. Until then, I don't think I can argue anywhere for it's location. How can you argue where something is located, if you don't know where it is? I could say maybe North West, but based on what, rubbish thrown around for the last 120 years? It's too hard to validate information and peoples claims. Look at what has been done to those mountains allready. Look at the lies being spread, even today by people like myself who don't know better.
You see Joe, a lot of this crap started as a tiny snowflake even before Dutchie died. Now, it's a f'n snowball the size of Manhattan. Sort through the chaff? It's all chaff as far as I'm concerned.
I can provide my sources for that
don't get mad at me Joe, just havin a little fun here.
Joe,
Those coordinates were a joke, obviously. I have no idea where they lead to, should be somewhere in Tempe though...haha. Just made that up.
Regarding your thread, I've heard/read arguments placing the mine all over those damn mountains. Everyone has a valid point, yet none have found it...or have they?
When I find it, I'll be sure to post here. You betcha. Until then, I don't think I can argue anywhere for it's location. How can you argue where something is located, if you don't know where it is? I could say maybe North West, but based on what, rubbish thrown around for the last 120 years? It's too hard to validate information and peoples claims. Look at what has been done to those mountains allready. Look at the lies being spread, even today by people like myself who don't know better.
You see Joe, a lot of this crap started as a tiny snowflake even before Dutchie died. Now, it's a f'n snowball the size of Manhattan. Sort through the chaff? It's all chaff as far as I'm concerned.
I can provide my sources for that
don't get mad at me Joe, just havin a little fun here.
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
-
Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
For Arguments Sake......
Randy,
I thought it might be interesting to just see folks making the case for one of four sections of the mountains. You have already made the case for where you think it might be. Making the case, does not equal saying it is.......HERE.
"don't get mad at me Joe, just havin a little fun here."
No doubt I deserve that comment. Most of the folks who would agree with you are no longer posting on this Forum......that I know of.
Take care,
Joe
I thought it might be interesting to just see folks making the case for one of four sections of the mountains. You have already made the case for where you think it might be. Making the case, does not equal saying it is.......HERE.
"don't get mad at me Joe, just havin a little fun here."
No doubt I deserve that comment. Most of the folks who would agree with you are no longer posting on this Forum......that I know of.
Take care,
Joe
haha
Yes, it is an interesting thread. I hope it picks up a bit more on topic. Would love to see some debate in here. Could be a hell of a topic, hearing good reasoning from all sides. Nice work Joe.
Honestly I think if I were to state an area I thought the mine was in, it would be the North East area. I don't have any oddles of stories to back it up, but just have a feeling that's where it is. I've read a lot of books, looked at clues, and the history, and a lot seems to direct me in that direction. Ely/Bark spent some time in that area. Gassler did also. Plus, if you were coming from the North, I think you might end up in the NE sector of the mountains. I've tried following some clues, but you know.
I just wish I knew what was real and what was made up. Are the Holmes deathbed directions accurate, or was that a yarn? What about the gun sight map? How accurate is that to the original? Was there ever a gunsight map at all? Is that even a gunsight? I don't think so, personally. What about the German directions? Julia and Rhiney didn't write them down, so who's to say the interview was properly conveyed? Then you get into the order of things.
So where does it all leave us if/when we realize that all these clues are bulls***? What if everything you knew was wrong, all the maps, clues, all yarn? How can one verify anything when greed runs rampant through man like a river carving the Grand Canyon? Everyone wants the mine for themselves. Look at the beginning, how it all started. The fueds from day one. Why didn't Julia attend the funeral of her "best friend"? The possibly stolen box of gold, the fake maps, destruction of markers very valid and left by the Spanish/Mexicans. What's one to do to make a case for any area of the range? Follow someone else? The term "beached whale" comes to mind quite often.
Also that damn range was so much different back then. Who found the mine in the early 1900's might have trouble returning to it today, even knowing where it was. Dutchie even said himself it was hard to find when you knew where it was. Imagine how much the terrain has changed in the last 100 years, nevermind that earthquake.
I hope to be proven wrong, but so far things look grim for anyone finding that mine, unless they get ahold of some manuscript or diary of a person who was active in the involvement with the mines/sites. I believe that's the only way. How else could one find it? There is always the luck factor, of which thankfully I have a bit of
Oh well, just thinking out loud here Joe. Hope you don't mind.
Yes, it is an interesting thread. I hope it picks up a bit more on topic. Would love to see some debate in here. Could be a hell of a topic, hearing good reasoning from all sides. Nice work Joe.
Honestly I think if I were to state an area I thought the mine was in, it would be the North East area. I don't have any oddles of stories to back it up, but just have a feeling that's where it is. I've read a lot of books, looked at clues, and the history, and a lot seems to direct me in that direction. Ely/Bark spent some time in that area. Gassler did also. Plus, if you were coming from the North, I think you might end up in the NE sector of the mountains. I've tried following some clues, but you know.
I just wish I knew what was real and what was made up. Are the Holmes deathbed directions accurate, or was that a yarn? What about the gun sight map? How accurate is that to the original? Was there ever a gunsight map at all? Is that even a gunsight? I don't think so, personally. What about the German directions? Julia and Rhiney didn't write them down, so who's to say the interview was properly conveyed? Then you get into the order of things.
So where does it all leave us if/when we realize that all these clues are bulls***? What if everything you knew was wrong, all the maps, clues, all yarn? How can one verify anything when greed runs rampant through man like a river carving the Grand Canyon? Everyone wants the mine for themselves. Look at the beginning, how it all started. The fueds from day one. Why didn't Julia attend the funeral of her "best friend"? The possibly stolen box of gold, the fake maps, destruction of markers very valid and left by the Spanish/Mexicans. What's one to do to make a case for any area of the range? Follow someone else? The term "beached whale" comes to mind quite often.
Also that damn range was so much different back then. Who found the mine in the early 1900's might have trouble returning to it today, even knowing where it was. Dutchie even said himself it was hard to find when you knew where it was. Imagine how much the terrain has changed in the last 100 years, nevermind that earthquake.
I hope to be proven wrong, but so far things look grim for anyone finding that mine, unless they get ahold of some manuscript or diary of a person who was active in the involvement with the mines/sites. I believe that's the only way. How else could one find it? There is always the luck factor, of which thankfully I have a bit of
Oh well, just thinking out loud here Joe. Hope you don't mind.
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Computers
Wayne,
Gene knows his way around computers. If he really wanted to tell us the end of his story, he would do so.
Joe
Gene knows his way around computers. If he really wanted to tell us the end of his story, he would do so.
Joe
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Thinking Out Loud
Randy,
"Oh well, just thinking out loud here Joe. Hope you don't mind."
I believe that's what we are all doing here. Since I started the topic, it stands to reason that I hoped a number of people would think
"out loud".....even you.
Take care,
Joe
"Oh well, just thinking out loud here Joe. Hope you don't mind."
I believe that's what we are all doing here. Since I started the topic, it stands to reason that I hoped a number of people would think
"out loud".....even you.
Take care,
Joe