Yellow Jackets

[Joe Ribaudo]

Ben,

"On another subject. Ely mentions in his masterful work on the LDM that Jacob was an intelligent individual of high character. He also says of Jacob that he, "learned a long time ago that if I(Jacob) don`t keep my own secrets, I can`t expect others to keep them" page 108"

Your quote actually begins on page 97 and ends on page 98.

[Perhaps such a man would spin a legend to convince folks there was only one mine. One mine with many different descriptions to confuse and complicate the search for those who followed.

If Jacob was a man of high character and kept secrets, why would he do this? What was he protecting?

Did he spend over twenty years in those mountains for just one mine?]

Jacob did not "spin a legend to convince folks there was only one mine." Waltz was speaking directly to the only two people he revealed his secret to, that being Julia and Rhiney. There was no reason for a man of his character to mislead them.

At this point in time, I believe you are the only person who is espousing this yarn.......without an ounce of proof. While, over the years, you have told a number of people you would show them "Oz", you have never kept a single promise, (of any kind) that I know of. Instead your story has morphed from a semi-plausible beginning to a fairytale of ever expanding, unbelievable proportions.

While I have not been to all of the prospect holes you gave coordinates for, I have seen a number of them. Old time Dutch Hunters have probably seen them all. One of them was John Chunning's dig, with the flowers growing in front of the entrance.........nice touch.

None of the ones I have seen will take you to Tucson, or El Dorado Canyon.

Is your book going to be published anytime soon? I will be sure to read it.
It will go on my book shelf along with Dr. Covey and Nino Cochise's fictional works.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

[pippinwhitepaws]

Perhaps he would understand that as long as one only looks for the LDM one will miss the heart of the true mystery in those mountains.

The simple sometimes hides the obvious.


Klondike

the Hopi and the Tibetan have some interesting mythology that sometimes holds hands...

what i listened too...' the Hopi are the brothers of the Tibetan....the Tibetan used to live at sea level...the earth changed it's mind...separated the people...'

in fact, a few years ago, a group of Tibetan monks came to hopi land for a meeting...not much heard about that meeting...

the treasure, as i was told, is knowledge. humans were not yet able to comprehend...so it was hidden until mankind was able to understand...

the cave of gold bars is a library....how the gold ( if gold is there), stories began? some people believe gold is treasure...and knowledge is disposable.

[klondike]

Hello Mr. Paws

Thank you for sharing.

Is Oz a library? Yes it is.

In many ways it is the most amazing library in the world.

The birthing of such knowledge is a most difficult thing.

Hello Mr. Ribaudo,

I normally don`t respond to the minutia of the LDM but if it will be of help to you I imagine the effort is not wasted. The quote is actually on page 108 of the edition published in London.

Yes several folks have visited Oz. Some of them post here and elsewhere.

Odd that Jacob left such confusing clues. I guess with time he just became perplexed with things. Not perplexed enough before he died to hand off many things to visitors from back east.

One of those visitors was a very beautiful lady.


Klondike

[Joe Ribaudo]

Ben,

I seldom look at the English version, but admit I did consider pulling it off the shelf. IMHO, the American version has a better feel to it.

I imagine there has been a long line of people who have visited your OZ.

Do you have any idea how long it will be before the University puts your Ely artifacts on public display? What's it been now......couple of years?

You never said when your book will be published. Shame not to share this story with the public. After all, Dr. Covey thought it worthwhile to share Calalus. Is your discovery more worthy of secrecy than that?

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

[klondike]

Mr. Ribaudo,

Perhaps you should dig a little deeper under the heart.

Who knows what one might find.

But then again you maybe right.

The earth probably is flat. It all depends on how you look at it.


Good luck,


Klondike

[Joe Ribaudo]

Ben,

I followed your game for awhile, but only as long as there was some chance you were being straight with us. That has not been the case from day one, so I have no interest in following your fantasy yellow brick road.....anywhere.

Name one person, of known reputation, who has been to "OZ" and is not ashamed to put their name to it.....Just one.

Once you slipped into the Calalus connection, you lost your audience. Well, except a for a few of our more gullible members. One wonders why you never bothered to take this story to any of the other LDM sites. I have to admit, we do have some "special" members here.

You answered none of my questions, asked none of your own and just dished up more of the same stuff.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

[pippinwhitepaws]

it was the monk who brought up the superstitions while describing 'sacred' places of the earth...it was said that since the earth changes were known prior to the event, storage of sacred knowledge was undertaken...and in the five fingers area...interesting that someone who barely spoke english an never came closer than Tempe to those mountains...was so knowledgeable about the area...

i was on a narrow ledge...great view...turned to leave...chest high...rather interesting rock art...being the nosie little person i am...i leaned squint close to the hanging wall...painted..wow...all those archaeology class to waste, i reached out my finger, slow motion... to test the surface along this line...the old persons finger print could be seen in the line..finger width....touch...wow..some people think doors are rectangle's only...

a northern arizona native medicine person an i spoke of this incident...he laughed...lol...you have been searching for that door for years..you find it an don't go through...lol

i know nothing of oz...

i only began attending the university in my 40's in a misguided attempt to understand some of the things that i have experienced in the southwest...

i hope that door is presented again...

[Cubfan64]

a gullible one or one of the "special" members?

In all honesty, I just try very hard to keep an open mind about everything.

I've seen and done some things in my life that I won't ever discuss with anyone since I know the reaction would be one of complete disbelief and I would prefer not being labelled as a "kook". I'm not talking 100's of things or anything, just a few here and there over my lifetime - but enough to convince me that logic, common sense and reason don't always answer EVERY question that presents itself.

[Joe Ribaudo]

Paul,

My comments were not directed at you, or anyone else.....specifically.

In the beginning, I was open to the story and did all I could to help Ben make the contacts he asked for. Years later, he claimed that he had relatives who were influential in the Dutch Hunting Community. That being the case, you might wonder what his agenda was, in contacting me.

I have been involved with Ben's story from it's beginning on the LDM Forum. I believe I may have been the first person he contacted on this site. Since that time, there have been many posts, under different identities, and more than a few personal email's between us. I also called and had a long conversation with Ben at his office one day.

My conclusions are based on those contacts, and messages from other members who have also been "stood-up", on more than one occasion, over the years. If that labels me as being closed minded, so be it.

By all means, believe what you wish. It may be that I am completely wrong, and Ben has been telling the truth all along. Shame to miss out on viewing all that wonderful history because of my ramblings. It's always possible there are caves in the Superstitions which make direct underground connections with other parts of the world........including Tibet.

Take care,

Joe

[Cubfan64]

I didn't mean to imply that I thought you were being close minded about this - I've read a bunch of the threads and understand at least some of the "printed" history of this topic.

I could tell you were open minded about it early on as well until some issues arose that forced you to question motives as well as the overall validity of the information. I know you have an open mind - otherwise you would never have gotten involved in searching for anything out there in the first place

You do a great job of taking in information, sorting it, researching it and then weighing what can be validated and what can't be, going back and starting the process over again. I'm nowhere near as good at doing that sort of thing, but I'm working on it. That's likely what leads me to believe I'm being more openminded, when I'm possibly just being more ignorant and gullible

Oh well, I am who I am and doubt I can change some of the aspects of my personality - and truthfully, probably don't want to change some of them. The world would be so boring if we were all the same

[pippinwhitepaws]

lol

[klondike]

Hello Paul,

Sorry your journey is punctuated with such trivial.

Good luck to you as you sort out the wheat from the Chaff.

When you visit in October remember the place I mentioned.

Hello Mr. Paws,

Again thanks for sharing your cultural experiences and you should not be so hard on yourself. As a wonderful lady from the South once said, "tomorrow is another day".

You do know a lot about Oz. You just don`t know it.

North of the Salt River is a cave entrance that leads you to find yourself.

Look for a starburst. Many people escaped from that entrance a long time ago.

Hello Mr. Ribaudo,

Sorry to see you are still confused. Confusion is a good thing. Perhaps some day wisdom will replace it.


Klondike

[Joe Ribaudo]

Ben,

"Confusion is the inability to think with your usual speed or clarity. When confused, you have difficulty focusing your attention and may feel disoriented. Confusion interferes with your ability to make decisions."

While I may be a little slower then when I was younger, clarity is not a problem. I pegged you early on, and you have not offered one thing to support your silly story.

I must admit I am somewhat confused as to your purpose for coming on this site, lying from the very first post, and continuing in that vein for years. One would think you would eventually get tired and give up the charade. My guess is that you are floating a story for an upcoming book or, as I have mentioned before, have some periods of boredom to deal with.

Other than those two reasons, I can't imagine why you would bother to tell your story, and not really care if anyone believed you. Not much point in the exercise, is there?

That's really the summation of this whole thing......not much point.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

[klondike]

Mr. Ribaudo,

Wisdom is understanding the point.

Sending folks all over the range looking for the bushel of LDM`s that have identified in the legend is well lying.

That lying has been accomplished by a number of folks both intentionally and otherwise.

Oz is very, very real.

It is located in the NW portion of the range within a mile of the coordinates that were posted.

On the other hand LDM`s seem to be everywhere it simply depends on your tastes.

Protecting the sacred instead of greed is what is understandable. Simply participating in perpetuating a myth without thinking is far more deadly that lying, because then you are lying to yourself for no reason.

Enjoy your side of the matrix. It has been good to you.

Have to agree with you on one point why dad decided to dialogue with you escapes me.

As far as the truth goes you may want to read some of the posts again. Remember it was not the coordinates that were importent it was the relationship between them.

As you know some of those lines go directly over interesting sites. One in fact is celebrated by a number of locals as the new LDM. Not the hole in the eastern part of the range.

I know you really don`t respond to reasonable questions but you might want to think in your weak moments what was it Jacob was up to all those years in the mountains?

A sophisticated educated man, far more than the locals he worked. He beached the Holmes crowd and reduced Julia to witchcraft. Not bad.

Take Care,


Klondike

[Joe Ribaudo]

Ben,

Are you saying that it takes someone with "wisdom" and "understanding" to see some point in your written words, which have been demonstrated to be consistently false?

If the members on this site, do not have sufficient intellect to see your point, does it follow that they have little "wisdom" or "understanding"?
In that case, I must repeat myself.......What was the point?

Perhaps we should return to the beginning of your game.

Did you first learn about the LDM from a Sims Ely book and letters that you found at a garage sale? If not, what was the point of starting your story with that lie? Once you explain that, we will all have a better understanding behind your reasoning. The factual truth being withheld makes it very difficult for anyone to reach a conclusion, based on "wisdom" and "understanding", because the basis of your case, is a lie. Does the phrase "Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus" ring a bell for you......Judge?

At what point, in the last couple of years, did you start telling us the truth? As someone with Judicial experience, you should have some clue as to the importance of that question. If you don't really care if anyone here believes you, why to you keep returning with your little riddles? In other words........What's the point?

If the people in Georgia are more capable of understanding the importance of your story, and artifacts, why do you keep trying to make us understand? Do you have a single letter of thanks for the Ely artifacts you donated to them? If you are unwilling to post that letter, I would ask: What's the point in telling us what you did with them?

You came here with a, somewhat, plausible story which morphed into a decent script for a Six Million Dollar Man/Bigfoot script. Now it is our fault that we don't have the "wisdom" or "understanding" to believe your "Wizard Of Oz" fairytale.

Dutch Hunters have been visiting your LDM locations for decades. You remind me of a recent picture I viewed, of a fellow setting outside a well known, barren......shallow prospect hole, patting himself on the back for being the ONE to finally rediscover Jake's mine. Like him, you have given us all a good laugh.

It goes without saying, that I have enjoyed sparing around truth and facts with you. You have just enough knowledge of your subject to keep the intellectual juices flowing. Now and again, it's almost been a challenge.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

[lazarus]

Typical Joe,

degrading others.

[lazarus]

Joe,

you just keep writing trash, loser boy. It's the only way you'll ever get any attention, as you have never come close to the LDM and you never will.
You are a fraud and a fool.

Brad

[Joe Ribaudo]

For those who may be a bit confused by Brad's comments, let me (once again) make it perfectly clear:

I have never searched, on my own, for the LDM. I have always believed it was found and cleaned out many years ago. That being the case, it may be true that I "have never come close to the LDM".

I have, on the other hand, been to Brad's Coon Bluff LDM, although it was many years ago. We were visiting a number of sites that Uncle Obie had rummaged around in.

On that same trip we took a look at a typical "Spanish" dig just off the east side of the Apache Trail, just above? Gov. Wells. I may have to revisit that site this Oct. to get some pictures and GPS coordinates.

Coon Bluff has been gone over so many times over the years, that there are bulldozer roads all around the place. They were not looking for gold, leave that to Brad, but barite.

Brad may also be correct that I am a "loser". I won't compare my life to his, because if he is a winner, that's not something I aspire to be.

My personal opinion is that Brad should stick to the Sky Harbor Mission and Kino Glasses. Those are two subjects where he is the undisputed winner.

If Ben want's to defend his actions on this site, he is infinitely more qualified to do that than Brad. Ben is man is of high intelligence and has actually made something of himself. While I don't believe a word he says, I respect his accomplishments in life. He is a man of some substance and respect in his field. Perhaps that also qualifies him as a "loser" in Brad's world.

I have had many contacts with Ben over the last few years. That would include a number of email's from Ben and many of his "associates", as well as a personal phone conversation with him. I, pretty much, knew a lot about the man, before he even told me his name. Since they had made personal contact with me first, and asked for my assistance, I made it my business to know who I was dealing with. It may very well be that Brad is more qualified to make a judgement on what has taken place here than I am. On the other hand, I seldom make judgement calls on people without doing my homework first.

Ben has the opportunity to clarify the truth of what they have said here. He only needs to truthfully answer the questions I have asked. No need to reveal any big secrets, just tell us the truth about his posts on this Forum. When I point out that they started with lies, I can back up that statement all day long. He doesn't answer, because he knows I am telling the truth.

Joe Ribaudo

[lazarus]

Joe,

your post is a riot.
You are blowing smoke. You told Gloria and I both you have never been to Coon Bluff. Furthermore, I have never said my find is on or near Coon Bluff.
Just more Joe smack. You're so full of yourself.

Still, my offer stands. You are welcome to go hiking with me, and I'll put you to shame. Too bad you're such a poor sport. It would be fun to watch you choke on your words.

Laz

[lazarus]

Joe,

you need to start saving up for a bag of peanuts...
you and I have some hiking to do.


Laz

[Joe Ribaudo]

"You told Gloria and I both you have never been to Coon Bluff. Furthermore, I have never said my find is on or near Coon Bluff."

Convoluted statements like this are why I won't be trying to have anymore conversations with Mr. fried brains.

I never had a conversation with Brad or Gloria, where Coon Bluff was mentioned. Brad was dying to tell me about finding the LDM at the last Rendezvous. He told me it was a short distance off the Bush Highway. About that time, his wife, who is the only one in that family with an ounce of sense, told him to stop talking, as he had already told me enough for me to find the mine.

I know the history of the area pretty well, so it was not hard to figure out where he was playing. No one ever mentioned Coon Bluff. I was the first one to mention that place as a bogus location for the LDM......on this Forum.

That location has been an ongoing joke for quite awhile now. I believe Chris gave up on it some time ago. By now, I am sure that Brad knows it is a joke as well. He will ride that horse to death, much like the Sky Harbor Mission. Never admit you made a stupid mistake, even though we all do.

Joe Ribaudo

[lazarus]

Joe,
wrong again.

The conversation involved Gloria and I canoeing on the Salt River, and Gloria asked you if you had ever been to Coon Bluff, to which you replied you hadn't.

Maybe your memory is failing you. Try some B complex.

Laz

[zentull]

A cowboy named Bud was overseeing his herd in a remote mountainous pasture in
California when suddenly a brand-new BMW advanced out of a dust cloud towards him.

The driver, a young man in a Brioni suit, Gucci shoes, RayBan sunglasses and YSL tie, leans out the window and asks the cowboy, "If I tell you exactly how many cows and calves you have in your herd, Will you give me a calf?"

Bud looks at the man, obviously a yuppie, then looks at his peacefully grazing herd and calmly answers, "Sure, Why not?"

The yuppie parks his car, whips out his Dell notebook computer,connects it to his Cingular RAZR V3 cell phone, and surfs to a NASA page on the Internet, where he calls up a GPS satellite to get an exact fix on his location which he then feeds to another NASA satellite that scans the area in an ultra-high-resolution photo.

The young man then opens the digital photo in Adobe Photoshop and exports it to an image processing facility in Hamburg , Germany

Within seconds, he receives an email on his Palm Pilot that the image has been processed and the data stored. He then accesses a MS-SQL database through an ODBC connected Excel spreadsheet with email on his Blackberry and, after a few minutes, receives a response

Finally, he prints out a full-color, 150-page report on his hi-tech, miniaturized HP LaserJet printer and finally turns to the cowboy and says, "You have
exactly 1,586 cows and calves"


"That's right. Well, I guess you can take one of my calves," says Bud.


He watches the young man select one of the animals and looks on amused as the young man stuffs it into the trunk of his car.


Then Bud says to the young man, "Hey, if I can tell you exactly what your business is, will you give me back my calf?"


The young man thinks about it for a second and then says, "Okay, why not?"


"You're a Congressman for the U.S. Government",
says Bud.


"Wow! That's correct, " says the yuppie, "but how did you guess that?"


"No guessing required." answered the cowboy. "You showed up here even though nobody called you; you want to get paid for an answer I already knew,to a question I never asked. You tried to show me how
much smarter than me you are; and you don't know a thing about cows...this is a herd of sheep!



Now give me back my dog!!!

[Cubfan64]

Because I just literally laughed out loud

I like that one!

[Joe Ribaudo]

Wayne,

First time I have ever heard how they figure all that out. I loose more dogs that way......

Thanks for the laugh,

Joe