Nice day out....real tempting, but I got plans to watch Haren pitch against the Pirates this afternoon. The city has paid for a charter bus and tickets for both of my spring Cal Ripken teams. Guess it's a beer and a dog for me.
Nothing like hanging with the boys and Pops at a ballgame
Paul,
Just like Johnny Cash says " I been everywhere man....."
With the exception of a Cubs world series game.
Yellow Jackets
"In the end, I believe I would keep a memento or two, take many many photos, spend some time absorbing my finds, make sure I knew how to get back if I ever wanted and then walk away. I may go back now and then to enjoy the moment again, but I certainly wouldn't make the location public."
I would eat the steak, drink the beer, throw up a toast to El Dorado and Late, roll a smoke..........might bitch for the lack of beans though.
Still trying to figure out how you get 4' inside of 18"......you had to have been there.
I would eat the steak, drink the beer, throw up a toast to El Dorado and Late, roll a smoke..........might bitch for the lack of beans though.
Still trying to figure out how you get 4' inside of 18"......you had to have been there.
"Be Careful of What You Do Before A Lie Becomes The Truth"
zentull wrote: Still trying to figure out how you get 4' inside of 18"......you had to have been there.
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Had a great time with the kids tonight. If you watched the game you saw that homerun that Mark Reynolds popped into the bleachers.....there was an empty space where it hit between my teams and the girls softball team......just to the right of my Dad and boys.....the space I occupied but vacated to use the restroom........Heard the homerun as I was walking back and thought with my luck it landed right where I was sitting.......
So when you see the highlights I am that vacant space where the ball landed.......
So when you see the highlights I am that vacant space where the ball landed.......
"Be Careful of What You Do Before A Lie Becomes The Truth"
LOL - isn't that just the way it always works 
I might have to see if I can find the homerun shot on some video somewhere and watch it.
I'm seriously thinking of saving up enough money to get a pair of "Green Monster" seats one of these days. They are restricted access only to holders of tickets in the area and if you show up early enough for batting practice you can walk away with a bag full of BP home runs not to mention any HR's hit over it during the game.
Of course my luck I'd save up the money, get out there early and it would rain wiping out BP and then the game would end up bing a 1-0 pitchers dual with the winning run scoring on a walk with the bases loaded
I might have to see if I can find the homerun shot on some video somewhere and watch it.
I'm seriously thinking of saving up enough money to get a pair of "Green Monster" seats one of these days. They are restricted access only to holders of tickets in the area and if you show up early enough for batting practice you can walk away with a bag full of BP home runs not to mention any HR's hit over it during the game.
Of course my luck I'd save up the money, get out there early and it would rain wiping out BP and then the game would end up bing a 1-0 pitchers dual with the winning run scoring on a walk with the bases loaded
)Ahhh Klondike, I had no idea you were speaking of that "Lizzie."
Joe, Garry and I agreed when we decided to let folks know we had located Eleanor that out of respect for her privacy we wouldn't share any information at all concerning her whereabouts or how we came to find her.
In light of that promise, I'm going to have to refrain from making any further comments about her daughter - I'm sorry, it's just one of those "right things to do," and I hope everyone understands.
Joe, Garry and I agreed when we decided to let folks know we had located Eleanor that out of respect for her privacy we wouldn't share any information at all concerning her whereabouts or how we came to find her.
In light of that promise, I'm going to have to refrain from making any further comments about her daughter - I'm sorry, it's just one of those "right things to do," and I hope everyone understands.
Klondike,About the Peralta Book?
Have a good day.
I hope I'm misinterpretting you, but that has the ring of a "brush off" to it. I honestly meant no disrespect in my response at all and hope it didn't come off that way.
I honestly didn't realize the "Lizzie" you were referring to was Eleanor's daughter in this case - after all, there have been a number of "Lizzie's" referred to in the past. Once I realized your reference I just wanted to explain myself as to why I couldn't in good conscience comment on that subject.
Hopefully no hard feelings.
Off to sit in traffic for an hour on the way home. Had to stay late again tonight. I can't figure out why I'm the only one who feels the need to put in whatever hours it takes to get the work done - I take that back, I know why I do it - it's called "personal pride" and I work with too many people who don't have any. Maybe I'm just getting old.
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
TIN LIZZIE.......
Paul,
"Lizzie" posted on the Forum four times. You should enter her? name in the search engine here, and read the posts that preceeded and followed her arrival. Here is one of her posts. It will be immediatly obvious to you where she came from.
________________________________________________________
Lizzie
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 4
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:24 PM Post subject: the Canyon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eldorado,
How did you know dad`s name?
Dad sold most of the pictures to a man who visited our house when I was a kid. Dad saved 4 pictures and told us never to tell anyone.
One picture shows the starburst and the symbuls.
Another picture shows a wall in a cave with many symbuls that my brother and I have never understood. We visited a museum in Mesa and saw a lot of the symbuls on some rock maps.
A picture shows a wall with the names of a lot of people. Two names I see are Jacob Walzer and Martin Heisner. Above the names it says something about protectors of the sacred.
The last picture shows a room with things that are very old.
Dad said their was a awful fight in that canyon.
Klondike,
Dad brought home a sack of gold. Most of it was gold pieces in a black rock. The rest was like lumps of gold with a clear rock.
Dad said the cave had gold everywhere. Dad said he had never seen anything like it.
Zentull,
For now I onlly want to know what this is all about.
Mr. Ribaudo,
Dad worked for the railroad and spent a lot of days in the Superstitions. Our family comes from Colorado. Dad had a lot of notes from our familly papers.
Lizzie
Lizzie
____________________________________________________________
What's interesting for me, is that Lizzie seems to be using the computer in Ben Davis' office. You should read through the little play that goes on as Lizzie arrives on the Forum and then departs.
I have no idea if Elizabeth Vance is still living, or if she was Lizzie, but I would bet money against that being the case. On the other hand, I would bet money that Ben is hiding under that particular skirt.
It's hard enough to keep up with all the early players in this deal, let alone the "late" ones. Having been in on it from the start.......I can assure you it makes my head spin.
Take extra care,
Joe
"Lizzie" posted on the Forum four times. You should enter her? name in the search engine here, and read the posts that preceeded and followed her arrival. Here is one of her posts. It will be immediatly obvious to you where she came from.
________________________________________________________
Lizzie
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 4
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:24 PM Post subject: the Canyon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eldorado,
How did you know dad`s name?
Dad sold most of the pictures to a man who visited our house when I was a kid. Dad saved 4 pictures and told us never to tell anyone.
One picture shows the starburst and the symbuls.
Another picture shows a wall in a cave with many symbuls that my brother and I have never understood. We visited a museum in Mesa and saw a lot of the symbuls on some rock maps.
A picture shows a wall with the names of a lot of people. Two names I see are Jacob Walzer and Martin Heisner. Above the names it says something about protectors of the sacred.
The last picture shows a room with things that are very old.
Dad said their was a awful fight in that canyon.
Klondike,
Dad brought home a sack of gold. Most of it was gold pieces in a black rock. The rest was like lumps of gold with a clear rock.
Dad said the cave had gold everywhere. Dad said he had never seen anything like it.
Zentull,
For now I onlly want to know what this is all about.
Mr. Ribaudo,
Dad worked for the railroad and spent a lot of days in the Superstitions. Our family comes from Colorado. Dad had a lot of notes from our familly papers.
Lizzie
Lizzie
____________________________________________________________
What's interesting for me, is that Lizzie seems to be using the computer in Ben Davis' office. You should read through the little play that goes on as Lizzie arrives on the Forum and then departs.
I have no idea if Elizabeth Vance is still living, or if she was Lizzie, but I would bet money against that being the case. On the other hand, I would bet money that Ben is hiding under that particular skirt.
It's hard enough to keep up with all the early players in this deal, let alone the "late" ones. Having been in on it from the start.......I can assure you it makes my head spin.
Take extra care,
Joe
today
Hello Paul,
I have the upmost respect for you.
Sorry if the response came off as a brush off. It was not intended as such.
Good luck to all of you folks in this endeavor.
Really Joe,
Hiding under skirts?
You folks have a lot to be proud of. Just enjoy it.
Take Care,
Klondike
I have the upmost respect for you.
Sorry if the response came off as a brush off. It was not intended as such.
Good luck to all of you folks in this endeavor.
Really Joe,
Hiding under skirts?
You folks have a lot to be proud of. Just enjoy it.
Take Care,
Klondike
Joe - actually I had read those posts before and at the time wondered who Lizzie might be. I saw a few different last names and other references that I was going to follow up on one day, but never got around to it.
I'll leave it to others to surmise who all the players are here. The virtual anonymity provided by the internet could be considered good or bad I suppose - I just know that for me, until proven otherwise, I generally just take people at face value - I suppose it could prove to be my downfall, but I can't really change who I am and you probably wouldn't like me if I did
I'll leave it to others to surmise who all the players are here. The virtual anonymity provided by the internet could be considered good or bad I suppose - I just know that for me, until proven otherwise, I generally just take people at face value - I suppose it could prove to be my downfall, but I can't really change who I am and you probably wouldn't like me if I did
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Circular Stories.....
Paul,
At first, I gave Ben the benefit of the doubt and did my level best to assist him in every way I could, so I understand your curiosity.
I have been down this road before.......way down it. I can offer you some shortcuts in getting to understand where Ben is coming from.
A key clue in this little puzzle, is "Wake Forest". First thing you want to do, is get Cyclone Covey's book, "Calalus". He was a professor of history at Wake Forest University in North Carolina. Ben has hinted that the Sims Ely artifacts that the museum dropped the ball on acquiring, were sent there.
Next I would read whatever I could find on Burrow's Cave. You will find a lot of comments that sound vaguely familiar to what Ben has stated on this Forum.
There is a great deal in Calalus that includes the Apache. Definitely a book that Peter and Matthew Roberts should read.
Do a search in the Forum for "Wake Forest".
I know you probably don't have the time for all of that, but it's an interesting bit of research. As I said, I did it quite some time ago. Because I had read "Calalus", I recognized where Ben was taking us when he started on the "Gatekeeper" portion of his story.
One of the problems with some folks who are University educated, is that many of them think the rest of us are uneducated/stupid.
It has been an entertaining yarn he has spun. I am always amazed at how they can keep it going for years. Does that remind you of anyone else?
Take care,
Joe
At first, I gave Ben the benefit of the doubt and did my level best to assist him in every way I could, so I understand your curiosity.
I have been down this road before.......way down it. I can offer you some shortcuts in getting to understand where Ben is coming from.
A key clue in this little puzzle, is "Wake Forest". First thing you want to do, is get Cyclone Covey's book, "Calalus". He was a professor of history at Wake Forest University in North Carolina. Ben has hinted that the Sims Ely artifacts that the museum dropped the ball on acquiring, were sent there.
Next I would read whatever I could find on Burrow's Cave. You will find a lot of comments that sound vaguely familiar to what Ben has stated on this Forum.
There is a great deal in Calalus that includes the Apache. Definitely a book that Peter and Matthew Roberts should read.
Do a search in the Forum for "Wake Forest".
I know you probably don't have the time for all of that, but it's an interesting bit of research. As I said, I did it quite some time ago. Because I had read "Calalus", I recognized where Ben was taking us when he started on the "Gatekeeper" portion of his story.
One of the problems with some folks who are University educated, is that many of them think the rest of us are uneducated/stupid.
It has been an entertaining yarn he has spun. I am always amazed at how they can keep it going for years. Does that remind you of anyone else?
Take care,
Joe
Hello Paul,
I have always felt it is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.
And a truly educated person recognizes the magnitude of what they do not know not the little they do know.
There is a beautiful history in those mountains don`t lose sight of that in your journey.
All it takes is an awakening.
Klondike
I have always felt it is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.
And a truly educated person recognizes the magnitude of what they do not know not the little they do know.
There is a beautiful history in those mountains don`t lose sight of that in your journey.
All it takes is an awakening.
Klondike
The Salt River
The water of the Salt River now protects the sacred.
Patiently and silently.
What was hidden for over a thousand years waits beneath.
One ending, one beginning.
The One.
Klondike
Patiently and silently.
What was hidden for over a thousand years waits beneath.
One ending, one beginning.
The One.
Klondike
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pippinwhitepaws
- Expert
- Posts: 831
- Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:30 pm
Hello Mr. Paws,
Perhaps the mystery of Circlestone and the story of Ain-We-Goph take you to the same place.
Always found it odd that the older cultures of the Superstitions are generally more developed than the modern ones.
Suspect they were closer to a brightness that has now receded to the darkness.
On the mountain of mystery.
Aletheia, a word used by the children of an ancient culture who called the Superstitions their own.
Have to catch a plane to go home. Odd the flight will take a route that is very close to one of the routes indicated in Circlestone.
Klondike
Perhaps the mystery of Circlestone and the story of Ain-We-Goph take you to the same place.
Always found it odd that the older cultures of the Superstitions are generally more developed than the modern ones.
Suspect they were closer to a brightness that has now receded to the darkness.
On the mountain of mystery.
Aletheia, a word used by the children of an ancient culture who called the Superstitions their own.
Have to catch a plane to go home. Odd the flight will take a route that is very close to one of the routes indicated in Circlestone.
Klondike
Klondike wrote:
"Always found it odd that the older cultures of the Superstitions are generally more developed than the modern ones."
Klondike,
you are one odd cat, but I must agree with you on this. It does appear the older cultures in the region were more advanced than the more modern cultures.
I think the new guys showed up and took over an abandoned community.
Laz
"Always found it odd that the older cultures of the Superstitions are generally more developed than the modern ones."
Klondike,
you are one odd cat, but I must agree with you on this. It does appear the older cultures in the region were more advanced than the more modern cultures.
I think the new guys showed up and took over an abandoned community.
Laz
Aletheia...
A very interesting word indeed - had you not used it Klondike, I doubt I would have ever run across it. It does indeed mean "truth" Randy, but I think it goes deeper than that and I think Klondike meant it in a more specific manner.
With that said, I came across a couple good quotations that just seem appropriate here at this point of the thread.
With that said, I came across a couple good quotations that just seem appropriate here at this point of the thread.
All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo
Until my dying days, I believe I will refuse to admit that there are no more mysteries left to discover in the Superstition Mountains.The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. John F. Kennedy
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pippinwhitepaws
- Expert
- Posts: 831
- Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:30 pm
Aesop, Fables 531 (from Babrius 126) (trans. Gibbs) (Greek fable C6th B.C.) :
"A man was journeying in the wilderness and he found Veritas/Aletheia (Truth) standing there all alone. He said to her, `Ancient lady, why do you dwell here in the wilderness, leaving the city behind?' From the great depths of her wisdom, Veritas (Truth) replied, `Among the people of old, lies were found among only a few, but now they have spread throughout all of human society!"
"A man was journeying in the wilderness and he found Veritas/Aletheia (Truth) standing there all alone. He said to her, `Ancient lady, why do you dwell here in the wilderness, leaving the city behind?' From the great depths of her wisdom, Veritas (Truth) replied, `Among the people of old, lies were found among only a few, but now they have spread throughout all of human society!"
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Each Man's Truth.......
Paul,
Aletheia was the title of a book by Protagoras. Unfortunately, he did not really flesh out the concepts of the word in his book. It was really left to others, such as Plato and Aristotle to explore the many meanings of the word. Those two would be at the top of any list dealing with the meanings of aletheia. Many others followed.
Someone who writes well about the meanings of aletheia, is Mi-Kyoung Lee. On page 8 of his book, "Epistemology after Protagoras: Responses to Relativism in Plato, Aristotle, and Democritus" he writes:
"If anyone, no matter who, were given the opportunity of choosing from amongst all the nations in the world the beliefs which he thought best, he would inevitably, after careful consideration of their relative merits, choose those of his own country. Everyone without exception believes his own native customs, and the religion he was brought up in, to be the best; and that being so, it is unlikely that anyone but a madman would mock at such things. There is abundant evidence that this is the universal feeling about the ancient customs of one's country."
He continues on, to give examples of that theory. Bottom line is: Truth is variable depending on who is defining it, their history, personal biases and limited understanding of the facts. Those are things that really relate to to the LDM and the various legends that relate to the Superstition Mountains.
This is obviously personal opinion, so I could be way off base.
Take care,
Joe
Aletheia was the title of a book by Protagoras. Unfortunately, he did not really flesh out the concepts of the word in his book. It was really left to others, such as Plato and Aristotle to explore the many meanings of the word. Those two would be at the top of any list dealing with the meanings of aletheia. Many others followed.
Someone who writes well about the meanings of aletheia, is Mi-Kyoung Lee. On page 8 of his book, "Epistemology after Protagoras: Responses to Relativism in Plato, Aristotle, and Democritus" he writes:
"If anyone, no matter who, were given the opportunity of choosing from amongst all the nations in the world the beliefs which he thought best, he would inevitably, after careful consideration of their relative merits, choose those of his own country. Everyone without exception believes his own native customs, and the religion he was brought up in, to be the best; and that being so, it is unlikely that anyone but a madman would mock at such things. There is abundant evidence that this is the universal feeling about the ancient customs of one's country."
He continues on, to give examples of that theory. Bottom line is: Truth is variable depending on who is defining it, their history, personal biases and limited understanding of the facts. Those are things that really relate to to the LDM and the various legends that relate to the Superstition Mountains.
This is obviously personal opinion, so I could be way off base.
Take care,
Joe