Dutch Hunter Life Cycle

[Joe Ribaudo]

Wiz,

Since Ron and Aurum could give you the best information on Jake that pertains to his search for the LDM and his adventures in the Superstitions, I would think that would be the direction you are going here. If you are looking for how he treated his little girl, Tish may just want to provide you with that information. I am not trying to speak for her, but if the same question were asked (by a stranger) of my own daughter, I would hope she would tell you to "go pound sand".

I only tried to give you information that would allow you to focus your question a little better.

The object here is to try to establish a dialog with other Dutch Hunters and in the process exchange the information that we feel comfortable passing along. You may only be comfortable with the information that you have read in the books. While onions or boxes of chocolates have there own interest, the conversations they generate will be pretty short.
It is always nicer when the flow of information is a two-way street. Of course that's just an opinion, and one you may not agree with.

Respectfully,

Joe

[Wiz]

Peter:
Such is life.

Joe:
If your daughter had logged on a forum such as this and made an open and frank posting about her knowledge of you such as Tish has done about her father, it might be another matter. My question is what it is, and does not need focusing by you.
Now, please excuse my bluntness, but: butt out of this - I wasn't talking to you. When I ask you about your relatives, feel free to tell me to pound sand. For now, Tish can say that if she likes and I'll respect it. But let's wait and see what she has to say.

I know what the object here is. I share what I'm comfortable sharing. The rest I keep to myself. Just like everyone else here. You were the one who asked me, and I gave you the best answer I could.

[Joe Ribaudo]

Wiz,

When you post on an open forum, you may get responses from every direction. If you want your conversations to be private, "we have the technology".

As I said before, "it's a two-way street". If you are not happy with the flow of information or the participation of folks like Ron and Tom, don't whine. You only need to start a topic that everyone will want to post to, and you will not be able to stop the flow of information.

Don't mean to be so "blunt", but your LDM dialog has been pretty sparce lately to. I will no longer comment on your private conversation with Tish.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[Peter]

Wiz

Dont bother responding to his latest, it just aint worth the trouble. Simply do what alot of folks do. Click on the IGNORE button. That really annoys him.

P

[Aurum]

xx

[Wiz]

Aurum,

Very nicely said. As always, you are a voice of reason and intelligent discourse in a cacaphony of B.S. It's nice to see you posting again.


Joe,

Why is it that you always think you speak for everyone? Or that you need to reply to every post by everyone? Or that your opinions carry any more weight than anyone elses? Or that anyone cares?
You're right, my postings have been sparse. But that's because I have little to say. That doesn't seem to stop you from pontificating at great length, though.
It was never my intention to be unfriendly to you. I would still like to avoid that. But you are indeed getting annoying, pretending to be an expert on everything, including what one person should have said to another. What you need is a little humility (and no, I am not the one to teach it to you).
You said you are through commenting on my "conversation" with Tish. I'm holding you to that.

[Joe Ribaudo]

Wiz,

I don't know why I feel that way. Actually I never realized I was trying to speak for everyone. I admit I try to make a comment on every post where I can, not because I think I have something important to say, but because while I stopped posting for awhile the dialog was a little sleepy. Course you were right in there trying to stir up some LDM talk.

You see how this forum thing works, Wiz? Here you and I were having our own little private conversation and up pops Peter who, with the best of intintions, pokes his nose in and tells you what to do. Mind you he did not suggest, like I did, but tells you not to answer me. I am still waiting to read your reply telling him to "butt out" of our conversation.

Right now there are four topics that have goose eggs for replies and a few with only one. No doubt they don't deserve any comment. I suppose that is one method to get people talking again. I will let you jump in there and see if you can get an LDM conversation going.

You are right about one thing. I am getting annoying. I am even annoying myself. I will do my best to change that. No need to interrupt
the flow of the forum with my rantings.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[Peter]

Wiz

Told ya so. I'll butt out now and let you two have at it.

Aurum,

As always...well done.

P

[Joe Ribaudo]

Aurum,

I hope things are OK with you. Thanks for that post. As stated, it was needed.

Take care.

Joe

[TC ASKEY]

Harry,
Because the conversation has strayed off the topic of your original post,including the comment I made, You might add one more to the very bottom of your list.
" After accomplishing all of the above, I did not need to be an Expert, to be wrong about anything ."
Now hopefully, we can end the pissing match and move on to something else.

[Joe Ribaudo]

Really good idea Terry. This topic was "tounge in cheek" and not really meant to go anywhere to begin with. Why don't you step up and start a new topic that is less satirical and actually has something to do with the LDM and the Superstition Mountains. I promise to stay out of that conversation completely and give someone else the chance to speak up.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[Loke]

Yup - (yet) another newbie has joined the ranks - so - a big 'Hi' to all of you!
At the moment I'm at stage #1 - 'a believer because I dont know anything'. However, I'm like a sponge and I am absorbing whatever I can.

Since I'm ignorant, I will not post much (if at all), but you will see my shadow hovering around ... and I hope that with time I will learn enough to be sceptical, more sceptical and then a believer again *lol*.

I'm 58 yo, a computerate and an engineer and I have walked in the mountains (not the Supes) most of my life - I don't mind if its hot or cold - I'm equally at home. As you can all see - I live too far away to be a physical 'menace' - however, I do have a daughter who lives in Phoenix and she may be getting more visits than she bargained for ...

I have read through most of the forums on this site - and I am impressed. It's by far the best I've come across - it may not have all the startling revelations, but there are an awful lot of titbits to be found!

So - I'll leave y'all to it - and I'll be (maybe) silently watching!

Regards,
Loke

[dutch elm disease]

Joe,
We all know that the Indian and the Mexican were here before us. The British, French,and Russians would probably no longer exit today if the United States had not got involved in World War II. The British have never liked us and still don't. The Russians have been our enemies since World War II up up until recently.The Indians are now reaping their revenge with all the new casinos.You can't walk into any Walmart in Phoenix without tripping over 200 Mexicans,and the French have always Sucked. So what does this really have to do with the soldiers that were involved in the Indian wars and who Really gives a shit what the rest of the world thinks ?

TC
the "british" fought hitler for several years before the"americans" reluctantly entered the war and made a very good job of it too and to suggest the british (along with others0) would prob no longer exist today without americas help is both facetious and silly. your quote"who gives a shit wat rest of world thinks/) is precisely why america IS loathed by the rest of the world with good reason.thankfully your attitude is not mirrored by the majority but unfortunately it has become the stereotyped image of an "american". as could be foreseen in as regards iraq.... the europeans were right ....and america was wrong.but as you say "who gives a shit what the world thinks?" what this has to do with the dutchman is anybodys guess but it needs to be said

[Joe Ribaudo]

DED,

There are assholes in every country. The British were well known around the world, for looking down their collective noses at the "little people" it encountered in their travels and conquests. While it is true that we are loathed around the world, it is because of our strength, not our weakness, and because of our generosity not our tight fists. American blood has nourished the Tree of Freedom in all corners of the World. We have a right to be proud of that history.

Terry's grasp on the history of WWII may be a little skewed by the number of lives we have lost fighting for the freedom of the people of Europe and other lands. Compared to the people we have lost fighting for others rights and freedoms on their soil, you must admit it has been(pretty much) a one-way street. How many British lives have found their final resting place in America while fighting to protect and liberate our cities, towns and peoples?

You could be right, at least as right as say....Chamberlin about the Iraq thing. Perhaps we should have waited for the first mass killing of British civilians before doing the right thing. At least someone over there realized it was time. It is always the wrong time when you are busy burying your dead.

We are mostely Americans here and you will find the response to your comments a little testy. Hitler was done when we entered the war. History tells us that you would have survived and Germany would still be a Russian possession today if not for our presense, perhaps England as well.

Why are we over there?

"We have torn up 150 years of traditional American foreign policy. We have tossed Washington's Farewell Address into the discard. We have thrown ourselves squarely into the power politics and the power wars of Europe, Asia and Africa. We have taken the first step upon a course from which we can never hereafter retreat." (emphasid in bold by Joe) Senator Arthur H. Vandenberg, March 11, 1941

I will not quote Washington's Farewell Address. If you are interested, it will be easy for you to find.

This also needed "to be said".

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[TC ASKEY]

Joe,
" Very " well put.
Dutch,
Remember now-- " Stiff Upper Lip "

[dutch elm disease]

joe
the point i was making in regard to tcs post was this....tc post seemed to be a racist statement in part....as you rightly say hitler had lost the war before america entered ....due to his rash and impetous invasion of russia .and not due soley to americas involvement... and in aying that i am not belittling or being disrespectful to the american lives lost.whether or not saddam was a tyrant or not was not the reason for the invasion/liberation of

[dutch elm disease]

im not sure wat happened there my post posted before i finished lol. where was i? oh yeah....the invasion /liberation was undertaken on the assumption of iraqs possession of wmd of which there is no evidence unless bows and arrows are included. and who are we (the west) to lecture anyone on nuclear etc weapons when we are the biggest owners of such? its pure hypocrisy.
the statement that the british never liked americans and still dont is again a silly statement..some do ..some dont.but to suggest that america is always ready to sacrifice theoir young mens lives for freedom is too simplistic.the "freedom" of its newly acquired subjects is purely secondary ...usually the main catalyst is self interest...not that america is alone in that. yes even britain.
tc
i shall endeavour to keep my "stiff upper lip" in spite of your taunting comment.

[TC ASKEY]

Dutch,
Take a good look at my last name. It happens to be as " limey " as you can get. The statement I made regarding The European Countries, happens to be " True " as you well know. The comment about the Mexicans ? Be grateful you do not live in Arizona.

[dutch elm disease]

tc
without trying to sound antagonistic i dont know its "true" to me anyway people are people as martin luther king said a man should be judged by the content of his character and not colour of his skin..mexicans? well they are people to are they not? maybe you arent racist perhaps ive misinterpreted your pot ...but at first glance it appears you may be. the french antagonism to america (from some quarters) might be fuelled partly by the fact that americans( together with the allies) probabley killed as many french civilians as they did german military forces...i doubt if they used the term "friendly fire" then(perhaps they did).if you think im making that up research wat happened at caen.geez talk about an off subject post lololol

[Joe Ribaudo]

DED,

Being racist is not something we have the corner on. Few countries have our record of welcoming others from outside our borders. I think we can match and beat the immigration numbers of every nation in the world. When you mix people from different countries and cultures in one melting pot, you will see racism. Is Tracy a racist or is he just politically incorrect?
His feelings are a product of his life experiences, just like the rest of us.
By defination, a racist is someone who believes that some races are by nature superior to others or someone who discriminates against others based on that belief. Tracy's comments do not reach that level.

It would be interesting to hear your feelings again in a few years, when Musilims will outnumber the Brit's in their own country.

Until you are ready to provide reliable sources for us killing as many French as we did Germans, you might want to reconsider that statement. You don't want to include the French traitors that were working with the Germans in those figures as that might skew the numbers somewhat.

From a purely historical/military point of view, Great Britain would have been overrun by the Germans if Hitler had not gone into Russia. As an obvious student of history, you should know that to be as close to a fact as you can get.

You have every right to compare your own country with Iraq, but please do not compare America or our government to Iraq's. "There are still some of us who would rather die on our feet than live on our knees." For your information, Saddam and his two sons were weapons of mass destruction.

I have promised myself not to get into another pissing contest on this forum, but I believe your comments have been over the line. Perhaps it would be best to return to the topic.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[dutch elm disease]

tis no pissing contest joe at least not from me. as regards french traitors there were some true....theres also been a few american traitors in history also.but thats beside the point. if youd like to read up on caen france you will see that caen france was flattened blasted obliterated very few germans were killed ..partly because theyd departed a fair time before the bombing operation.but theres more much more to the tale than that. american "friendly fire" has become almost legendary..in fact a they have added a few brits to their tallyin recent months. saddam and his sons weapoons of mass destruction? how about china and its rulers?..why not attack them too? how about saudi arabia and its repressive and corrupt regime? attack them? of corse not and the reasons obvious. more muslims in the uk? well ok if they law abiding citizens i got no prob with that.mexicans? fine by me . the trouble is with most peoples thinking they only see the prob from an insular point of view.invaders? liberators? the line is thin. the whole iraq thing is in mine and i suggest others in america too purely and simply to safeguard american oil interests in middle east.its so blatant but you might differ thats ok too.
in the previous post u mentioned how many brits bodies in foreign graveyards killed during their duties ..well how bout croatia? how bout ireland killed by ira terrorists at that time financed covertly from money raised in america and mot probabley secretely funded by some arm of the cia. europe is literally strewn with british remains two world wars ....the african congo the list goes on.america is NOT the worlds saviour altho it seems to want to don that mantle.with american money and influence comes the greed the corruption the graft ...the violence etc
THAT is why america is largely hated not becos of generosity wich if offered is usually self serving anyway.having said that i got no grudge against america americans watever..in fact im married to one lol

[Joe Ribaudo]

DED,

You have an interesting view of world history. Are you claiming that you were liberating Ireland?

Lets see who the world turns to the next time someone like Hitler comes into power. You folks will talk until it's too late, just like you all did with Hitler. A country that won't allow a man to protect his family and himself from attack is not the country I would trust with protecting others.

Your list of countries and wars where your people died is not much of a comparison to our list. First of all, you were fighting most of your wars in Europe. You folks have been killing each other on that continent since before you came out of the caves. You say "violance"? We are pikers when it comes to violence, compared to you folks.

"Friendly fire"? Are you nuts? Everyone kills "friendlies" in a war. It's the nature of war that you end up killing the wrong people. There are two major differences between you and us. We don't cry like women when our allies accidentally kill us and we usually do a better job of killing others, so more people die in an accident that is our fault.

If you really believe the CIA or any arm of that orginization funded the IRA, you are uninformed, to be kind. No doubt citizens of this country donated money to that cause. I knew such an idiot. That very thing is going on here today and is funding terrorism all over the world. Don't think for a second that the same thing is not going on in your country.

Just to keep this conversation historically honest, the British R.A.F. carried out night bombing of Cannes on Nov. 11 and 12th. They carried out 21 days of bombing on the city. Many Americans served in the R.A.F., so you could be (at least) partially correct. My source is: "Chronology and Index of the Second World War 1938-1945" by, The Royal Institute of International Affairs. Page 218

You have asked me to read the history, which is no problem for me. What is the source for your "friendly fire" claim? I will be happy to read that as well, if you have such a source.

This is the last reply that will come from me to you, on this subject.
11-7-03 (Obviously not).

Joe Ribaudo

[Knun]

Although we digress far from the intent of the forum this is a pertinent subject. It is the basis for us having the liberty to do as we wish with our time as idividuals under god.
The Constitution of the United States of America grants us the ability to do what we want, when we want, and how we want for all citizens. There is no mention of a Royal Fifth, a persentage or tith in the Constitution. No other Country in this entire world grants these same rights to an individual....none!
If anyone one in this world chooses to undermine these rights, by attack, by threat, or by cohersion with others, we must, as a country, stand together and defend our soverntry and freedom. This too is spelled out in the Constitution an is a requirement for citizenship. This is our fair share and is all that is asked of us. It matters not what gender, color, country, or planet they originate from. We must repel them, here or abroad, and protect our Country (Liberty), by law as citizens of this United States. If not we must forgoe our citizenship.
Looking back Tojo was a real threat to our Liberty as was Hitler (and that is the ultimate understatement). Our economy (and soldiers) turned the tide and were a major factor in their demise. This is fact and we remained free.
Russia attempted to enslave the free world. Does anyone remember Kruschov at the UN banging the table with his shoe? Does anyone remember what he said that day? He didn't mention Britian but he sure as heck mentioned the US! But we won that battle after 45 years. Again our economy and troops (Korea,Vietnam, etc.) won that war.
Defining racisim is a luxury afforded to very few in this world. We should all be greatful that this is an important issue for us. It is a problem we must continue to address in order to improve freedom for all granted us by our Constitution.
I believe we should always rejoice and promote our individual heritage and it is our duty as citizens to defend this wonderful liberty wherever necessary.
Mexicans, French, English, Russians, Koreans, Vietnamese, Japaneese, Cubans, Native Americans, US Citizens, Italians, Iranians, Columbians, Chinese, and others have tried to eliminate or amend these freedoms. Thank God none have succeeded. We have embraced all of these people before and after our conflicts with them were resolved. We even rebuilt (or are rebuilding) many of these Countries. Brings to mind what Mr. Powell said to a British Aristocrat when the Brit implied the US was promoting imperialism in Iraq. He stated that "The only thing the US asks for in return for helping to ensure the freedom of a people is enough land to bury our dead."

[dutch elm disease]

DED,

You have an interesting view of world history. Are you claiming that you were liberating Ireland?

Lets see who the world turns to the next time someone like Hitler comes into power. You folks will talk until it's too late, just like you all did with Hitler. A country that won't allow a man to protect his family and himself from attack is not the country I would trust with protecting others.

Your list of countries and wars where your people died is not much of a comparison to our list. First of all, you were fighting most of your wars in Europe. You folks have been killing each other on that continent since before you came out of the caves. You say "violance"? We are pikers when it comes to violence, compared to you folks.

"Friendly fire"? Are you nuts? Everyone kills "friendlies" in a war. It's the nature of war that you end up killing the wrong people. There are two major differences between you and us. We don't cry like women when our allies accidentally kill us and we usually do a better job of killing others, so more people die in an accident that is our fault.

If you really believe the CIA or any arm of that orginization funded the IRA, you are uninformed, to be kind. No doubt citizens of this country donated money to that cause. I knew such an idiot. That very thing is going on here today and is funding terrorism all over the world. Don't think for a second that the same thing is not going on in your country.

Just to keep this conversation historically honest, the British R.A.F. carried out night bombing of Cannes on Nov. 11 and 12th. They carried out 21 days of bombing on the city. Many Americans served in the R.A.F., so you could be (at least) partially correct. My source is: "Chronology and Index of the Second World War 1938-1945" by, The Royal Institute of International Affairs. Page 218

You have asked me to read the history, which is no problem for me. What is the source for your "friendly fire" claim? I will be happy to read that as well, if you have such a source.

This is the last reply that will come from me to you, on this subject.

Joe Ribaudo

i cant reacall anywhere saying i or we or the uk were liberating ireland .ireland was and still is a part of great britain.british troops were there to protect the populace caught in between the warring factions i.e catholics /protestants....ira/ udf...uda...udv. it of course escalated into far wider issue but nonetheless the british initially were there first to protect their soveriegnity of itreland ..other issues followed.
praps u can point out where in the british constitution it says a man cant protect his family or his country? you are missing a vital point.the united nations is a n organisation( admittedly wnot without fault) designed to "talk" if you like and settle things peacefully and only use force as a last resort(as opposed to shooting up everything in sight with a view to relection) america was guilty of the same(altho to a diff degree0) crime it accused iraq initially of i.e ignoring or not fullfilling united nations resolutions.america is a member of said organisation .. it ignored the mandate as did united kingdom and spain.in the process the un has been in my view all but destroyed. unless the rules are a joke or something they must be applied and accepted rigidly by all or else they are meaningless.
as for america being "pikers "compared to "us" regards violence... i did read somewhere recently how many countries america had attacked/liberated/invaded in recent ears unfortunatelyi cant recall the exact numbers but it was substantial(relatively0)
all the european contries and the un required for a mandate for war was proof of iraqs possession of said weapons. none was provided or at least none worth considering.so wheres your argument.?
we cry for our dead? i guess there has been many tears shed by loved ones widowed..orphaned..etc is that wrong?
do i believe the cia covertly funded ira?i said most probabley. do i know they did? i obviously dont ...any more than you know they didnt.but its not unbelievable not by a long way.
im not sure if cannes was bombed during before or sfter the war...the city i referred to was caen
america is seeking to d what hitler failed at...conquer the world.it does it partly by military means partly by economic...if it cant bring a country into line voluntarily it slams trade embargo on it..it has a similar effect.

america cant lecturw anyone on freedoms before it puts its own house in order.when palestinians have no other option than blowing themselves up to make a sad point something is direly wrong. israel supported funded by the united states are no less terrorists than alquaeda and their seedy cohorts. but israel is allowed to flourish..maybe u can explain that? whether or not you lower yourself to answer this is entirely up to you i didnt intend to embark on this lengthy tirade but you broadened the topic of my simple post.
"patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" the author of that slips my memory but it speaks volumes.i could continue on the subject of rights as pertains to the american indian(whats left of them) i could refer to the horriffic treatment of american negroes which wasnt a lifetime ago..i could refer to the communist"witch hunts2" but i wont

[dutch elm disease]

knun
just a brief point id like to make.you stated russia tried to enslave te world well you must understand looking at it from a russian point of view also.russia suffered terribly in the world wars worse than any other nation it seeked to do wat every other nation does i.e look after its own interests and safeguard its frontiers the "soviet bloc2" was designed to give itself partly a buffer zone..ok they went to extremes ill admit. but "capitalism" is no less an ideology than "communism" it feeds empire building.and as for russia being given the "gift " of capitalism commercialism "freedom" etc look at the state its in ..look at state of its peoples..some ideology ...some gift!