..The Stone Maps
kino shades
are the famed kino shades anything like rose colored glasses ..
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Wyatt Westwood
- Part Timer
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:49 pm
- Location: New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Australia
No News is Good News
Last edited by Wyatt Westwood on Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Aztec Gold
Wyatt,
Where did you get such a vast knowledge of the Aztec? Is Montezuma also crashing around in your psyche.
In what era do you believe the Atecs excavated gold mines in Arizona?
Do you know what was the most precious substance to the Aztecs?
If you really want to know what happened to the Indians of the Americas, you might want to spend a little time reading the works of Hassig, Vaillant and perhaps even take a look at "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by, Jared Diamond.
If you don't have the time for reading, you might try persuading one of your personalities to have a go at it.
As for you being "ASUgrad", I will accept your word that he is someone else. I am also just as positive that the rest of your personalities are someone else. The thing that really threw us, was the fact that his knowledge was on a par with yours. 1+1....etc.
March.
"If I found all of the signs and symbols outside of the Supers what would that be telling us?"
Well, that would be telling me that I will never run into you on the Stone Map trail. Don't get me wrong, I am more than happy with you outside the Supes.
You mentioned before, that the Kings of Spain owned all of the mines in the New World. Did they own the ones you are searching for? What era would that be?
You are certainly a good sport Billy. It's amazing that you keep coming back for the constant abuse. No doubt something from your childhood.
Joe
Where did you get such a vast knowledge of the Aztec? Is Montezuma also crashing around in your psyche.
In what era do you believe the Atecs excavated gold mines in Arizona?
Do you know what was the most precious substance to the Aztecs?
If you really want to know what happened to the Indians of the Americas, you might want to spend a little time reading the works of Hassig, Vaillant and perhaps even take a look at "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by, Jared Diamond.
If you don't have the time for reading, you might try persuading one of your personalities to have a go at it.
As for you being "ASUgrad", I will accept your word that he is someone else. I am also just as positive that the rest of your personalities are someone else. The thing that really threw us, was the fact that his knowledge was on a par with yours. 1+1....etc.
March.
"If I found all of the signs and symbols outside of the Supers what would that be telling us?"
Well, that would be telling me that I will never run into you on the Stone Map trail. Don't get me wrong, I am more than happy with you outside the Supes.
You mentioned before, that the Kings of Spain owned all of the mines in the New World. Did they own the ones you are searching for? What era would that be?
You are certainly a good sport Billy. It's amazing that you keep coming back for the constant abuse. No doubt something from your childhood.
Joe
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Wyatt Westwood
- Part Timer
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:49 pm
- Location: New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Australia
No more information
No News is Good News
Last edited by Wyatt Westwood on Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Billy,
I have never in my life met anyone who is as high on them self as you! When did you become an archeologist? Now you have found Aztec statues and ancient ruins of cities, while I am not saying that it is impossible, but for you to find such things…..that is impossible.
I learned very early on when I first met you that everything that came out of your mouth was nothing more than self-praise. I see things have not change for you in that way. As a matter of fact it has only gotten worse. You feel the need to be constantly patting yourself on the back for your so-called accomplishments that you think make you Legendary and Famous. The comical part about all of this is that you actually believe your own $hit! The only reason you are hanging around here is to try and make a name for yourself…..and believe me you have, but probably not in sense that you would like. You think that hit stat’s are a status of being important or even Legendary! I have had so many people email me and ask me who this idiot is? People are laughing at you hysterically, is that what you want? While I do as well tell them that you are a nice guy and have a wonderful wife, but your ego is your downfall and that it is enormous in size.
You know this forum is the best place for Dutch Hunting People and you want to fit in because of your website. You think that it will drive up traffic, which it probably will. But I don’t think people are coming to your site because of your so called “ knowledge “ but to see what kind of an ass you are and to see what other outlandish claims you are going to make next. Still think the Arc of the Covenant is out here in Arizona and that the symbol for it is on the so-called Tumacacori Map?
I feel that you have an agenda here we are not aware of yet. If you are thinking of selling anything to anyone here about your so called knowledge…… I would keep my day job.
If Jacob Waltz had a Spanish map, do you think that map alone would give him the knowledge to figure out the entire King’s coded method? Or for that matter establish one of his own? While I think it is entirely possible to for him to find a “ Peralta Mine “ of some sort in the Superstitions, but for him to construct these stones and leave monument and trail markers to Kings Mining districts outside of Tucson is nothing but pure fantasy. Again, where would he have gotten the knowledge for such information? Who would have helped him? The tools that you found, how do you know they are Jacob Waltz’s and not one the many miners that happen to be in that area. Southern Arizona is the back yard of where all this happened. There is evidence of that everywhere out there. People have mined in that area for over a hundred years!
When you look in the mirror in the morning…who do you see? Billy, Wyatt, or both?
Get a grip
Rochha
I have never in my life met anyone who is as high on them self as you! When did you become an archeologist? Now you have found Aztec statues and ancient ruins of cities, while I am not saying that it is impossible, but for you to find such things…..that is impossible.
I learned very early on when I first met you that everything that came out of your mouth was nothing more than self-praise. I see things have not change for you in that way. As a matter of fact it has only gotten worse. You feel the need to be constantly patting yourself on the back for your so-called accomplishments that you think make you Legendary and Famous. The comical part about all of this is that you actually believe your own $hit! The only reason you are hanging around here is to try and make a name for yourself…..and believe me you have, but probably not in sense that you would like. You think that hit stat’s are a status of being important or even Legendary! I have had so many people email me and ask me who this idiot is? People are laughing at you hysterically, is that what you want? While I do as well tell them that you are a nice guy and have a wonderful wife, but your ego is your downfall and that it is enormous in size.
You know this forum is the best place for Dutch Hunting People and you want to fit in because of your website. You think that it will drive up traffic, which it probably will. But I don’t think people are coming to your site because of your so called “ knowledge “ but to see what kind of an ass you are and to see what other outlandish claims you are going to make next. Still think the Arc of the Covenant is out here in Arizona and that the symbol for it is on the so-called Tumacacori Map?
I feel that you have an agenda here we are not aware of yet. If you are thinking of selling anything to anyone here about your so called knowledge…… I would keep my day job.
If Jacob Waltz had a Spanish map, do you think that map alone would give him the knowledge to figure out the entire King’s coded method? Or for that matter establish one of his own? While I think it is entirely possible to for him to find a “ Peralta Mine “ of some sort in the Superstitions, but for him to construct these stones and leave monument and trail markers to Kings Mining districts outside of Tucson is nothing but pure fantasy. Again, where would he have gotten the knowledge for such information? Who would have helped him? The tools that you found, how do you know they are Jacob Waltz’s and not one the many miners that happen to be in that area. Southern Arizona is the back yard of where all this happened. There is evidence of that everywhere out there. People have mined in that area for over a hundred years!
When you look in the mirror in the morning…who do you see? Billy, Wyatt, or both?
Get a grip
Rochha
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Wyatt Westwood
- Part Timer
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:49 pm
- Location: New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Australia
Gold
I find Gold.
Wyatt
Wyatt
Last edited by Wyatt Westwood on Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Billy,
You don’t have one thing or accomplished anything that I am jealous of, lets’ get that straight right now. While I may be many things a thief is not one of them. As I told you when all this went down…..you were wrong. I had no reason to do anything of what you accused me or Lou of. If you remember at the time I needed someone like you who had the resources you had. I had NO reason to do any of what you claim I did.
I think I’ll pass on coming down and seeing how you treasure hunt, that I have seen already and was not impressed. One more thing, if you are trying to insinuate that you are capable of throwing my 200 lb. short stocky frame down an abandoned mine shaft, you better wake up from that dream “ boy “.
I have many photo’s of monuments and trail markers and carvings on rocks, but I don’t need a web site to make me feel like a man or to boost my ego, you on the other hand do. You live for the lime light of all this……I don’t! Why should I post photos of trail markers for the world to see unless I had an agenda and was eventually going to try and sell some books or " Kino Shades ".
Your right Billy, I did lie to you about Lou. You see when he asked me what kind of a person you were after we first met. I told him you had the biggest ego known to mankind. I also told him of all the phone calls I had with you were my ears literally hurt from having the phone to them for so long listening to your Bull$hit and how I could not get off the phone with you. His next response was….” You deal with him “, my response to him was “ Thanks a lot Pal “!!!!!. So there, now you have the real truth as to why he wanted nothing to do with you or your enormous ego.
I am not quite sure where you “ Divorce “ comment is coming from, I am happily married and have the best wife…..and by the way, my wife does not miss your phone calls either.
Your comments about my beliefs of the KGC are perplexing, where are you getting that information? I don’t think the KGC have anything to do with anything that happened in this state…..get your fact’s right.
Your work does not impress me in the slightest, it never has. You are too quick to make claims on things you think you found. Just like the tailing pile we saw that one day when we were out driving around, the one we went and investigated, remember that one? I had to listen to you for 45 minutes of how we had just found the “ Lost San Pedro Mine “. The whole time that I am listening to you ramble on about it I was looking ever so forward to the drive back to Phoenix.
Care to explain to us all Master Hunter how Jacob Waltz made all of those monument and trail markers, I see you have danced around that one. Tell us all your theory on how he accomplished all that. Let’s hear it.
How does it feel to be laughed and ridiculed at by so many?
Rochha
You don’t have one thing or accomplished anything that I am jealous of, lets’ get that straight right now. While I may be many things a thief is not one of them. As I told you when all this went down…..you were wrong. I had no reason to do anything of what you accused me or Lou of. If you remember at the time I needed someone like you who had the resources you had. I had NO reason to do any of what you claim I did.
I think I’ll pass on coming down and seeing how you treasure hunt, that I have seen already and was not impressed. One more thing, if you are trying to insinuate that you are capable of throwing my 200 lb. short stocky frame down an abandoned mine shaft, you better wake up from that dream “ boy “.
I have many photo’s of monuments and trail markers and carvings on rocks, but I don’t need a web site to make me feel like a man or to boost my ego, you on the other hand do. You live for the lime light of all this……I don’t! Why should I post photos of trail markers for the world to see unless I had an agenda and was eventually going to try and sell some books or " Kino Shades ".
Your right Billy, I did lie to you about Lou. You see when he asked me what kind of a person you were after we first met. I told him you had the biggest ego known to mankind. I also told him of all the phone calls I had with you were my ears literally hurt from having the phone to them for so long listening to your Bull$hit and how I could not get off the phone with you. His next response was….” You deal with him “, my response to him was “ Thanks a lot Pal “!!!!!. So there, now you have the real truth as to why he wanted nothing to do with you or your enormous ego.
I am not quite sure where you “ Divorce “ comment is coming from, I am happily married and have the best wife…..and by the way, my wife does not miss your phone calls either.
Your comments about my beliefs of the KGC are perplexing, where are you getting that information? I don’t think the KGC have anything to do with anything that happened in this state…..get your fact’s right.
Your work does not impress me in the slightest, it never has. You are too quick to make claims on things you think you found. Just like the tailing pile we saw that one day when we were out driving around, the one we went and investigated, remember that one? I had to listen to you for 45 minutes of how we had just found the “ Lost San Pedro Mine “. The whole time that I am listening to you ramble on about it I was looking ever so forward to the drive back to Phoenix.
Care to explain to us all Master Hunter how Jacob Waltz made all of those monument and trail markers, I see you have danced around that one. Tell us all your theory on how he accomplished all that. Let’s hear it.
How does it feel to be laughed and ridiculed at by so many?
Rochha
Last edited by rochha on Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
weirdo wyatt
wyatt westwood...looks like you finally made legendary status...legendary and famous laughing stock....
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Pretty Good Answer
Wyatt Billy Bob,
I have to say, that's the most edited post I have ever seen. Not that I fault you for trashing most of it, that was an excellent idea.
Jade was the most precious, but turquoise was right there in second place.
March!
Aztec "mining" was very "rudimentary". "Gold was collected in nugget form or panned as dust; copper also was mined as nodules or nuggets; silver, which seldom occurs pure in nature, was for this reason rarely converted into ornaments." Vaillant, "Aztecs of Mexico".
I understand why you don't need to read books to form your opinions of the Indians of the Americas. Historical facts often get in the way of a good legend. Since I am not really old enough to have "been there", I like to read the history from folks who have a little more time and better resources to research the subjects.
Once you submit your "thoughts" on this forum, it really does little good to edit out the "really stupid" parts of your post. In your case, you are left with...."No News is Good News".
Time to take the "Kino Glasses" off and open those baby blues Billy Bob, there's a whole other world out there.
Joe
I have to say, that's the most edited post I have ever seen. Not that I fault you for trashing most of it, that was an excellent idea.
Jade was the most precious, but turquoise was right there in second place.
March!
Aztec "mining" was very "rudimentary". "Gold was collected in nugget form or panned as dust; copper also was mined as nodules or nuggets; silver, which seldom occurs pure in nature, was for this reason rarely converted into ornaments." Vaillant, "Aztecs of Mexico".
I understand why you don't need to read books to form your opinions of the Indians of the Americas. Historical facts often get in the way of a good legend. Since I am not really old enough to have "been there", I like to read the history from folks who have a little more time and better resources to research the subjects.
Once you submit your "thoughts" on this forum, it really does little good to edit out the "really stupid" parts of your post. In your case, you are left with...."No News is Good News".
Time to take the "Kino Glasses" off and open those baby blues Billy Bob, there's a whole other world out there.
Joe
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JIM HAMRICK
- Part Timer
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:46 am
- Location: phoenix
- Contact:
the stone maps
Being a relative newcomer to this site I am not sure how much of what I see posted is just banter between mempers of a group who are seeking treasure or gold in the Superstition or out right hostility among this group.
Please recall the number of people who have died in the mountains, some because treasure seekers thought that they were very close to finding the treasure and wanted no one encroaching on the site. The mountain is dangerous enough on its own and doesen't need any help from irate treasure seekers. In 1957 (I believe) a young lady that I knew lost a husband and brother-in-law in the low foot hills of the range. These two were deer hunting and were trapped by a snow storm and died from exposure so please hold down the rancor as I might some day venture, on three legs, into these mountains and would not appreciate being shot (especialy as I don't beleive there is any buried treasure).
Please recall the number of people who have died in the mountains, some because treasure seekers thought that they were very close to finding the treasure and wanted no one encroaching on the site. The mountain is dangerous enough on its own and doesen't need any help from irate treasure seekers. In 1957 (I believe) a young lady that I knew lost a husband and brother-in-law in the low foot hills of the range. These two were deer hunting and were trapped by a snow storm and died from exposure so please hold down the rancor as I might some day venture, on three legs, into these mountains and would not appreciate being shot (especialy as I don't beleive there is any buried treasure).
Apology
Everyone,
Just want to take a minute and apologize if I have caused some uneasy feeling’s among some of the members here on the forum. That was not my intent at all, I guess dirty laundry shouldn’t be aired out here.
Again my apologies
Rochha
Just want to take a minute and apologize if I have caused some uneasy feeling’s among some of the members here on the forum. That was not my intent at all, I guess dirty laundry shouldn’t be aired out here.
Again my apologies
Rochha
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Waiting
Jim,
When the conversation gets slow, some banter is always going to occur.
Wyatt has come on the forum and made a large target of himself. As you know, outlandish claims are all part of belonging to the Dutch Hunting community. If you are around long enough, you will hear just about everything.
I have no "outright hostility" (or hidden) against anyone who has posted on the LDM forum. It is always interesting to hear what the other guy thinks. Often you need to throw a little wood on the fire to really get to know someone. I am only trying to find out where the Wyatt(s) is/are coming from.
Some people respond well to respect and kindness. Some prefer confrontation, and go out of their way to make it happen. Most of us are only responding to Wyatt in the manner he has dictated. If he switches to calm, rational and respectful exchanges, I believe he will be answered in kind.
The real question here is, why don't you believe there is any treasure in the Superstition Mountains? Since you have been around for awhile, your opinion would be valuable to us all. Did you ever believe? Do you personally know anyone who claims to have taken treasure out of the Superstitions, or has seen treasure that someone else found there?
More than a few "legends" have been proven to be true stories. It just requires someone like Wyatt to keep the faith, for as long as it takes.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
When the conversation gets slow, some banter is always going to occur.
Wyatt has come on the forum and made a large target of himself. As you know, outlandish claims are all part of belonging to the Dutch Hunting community. If you are around long enough, you will hear just about everything.
I have no "outright hostility" (or hidden) against anyone who has posted on the LDM forum. It is always interesting to hear what the other guy thinks. Often you need to throw a little wood on the fire to really get to know someone. I am only trying to find out where the Wyatt(s) is/are coming from.
Some people respond well to respect and kindness. Some prefer confrontation, and go out of their way to make it happen. Most of us are only responding to Wyatt in the manner he has dictated. If he switches to calm, rational and respectful exchanges, I believe he will be answered in kind.
The real question here is, why don't you believe there is any treasure in the Superstition Mountains? Since you have been around for awhile, your opinion would be valuable to us all. Did you ever believe? Do you personally know anyone who claims to have taken treasure out of the Superstitions, or has seen treasure that someone else found there?
More than a few "legends" have been proven to be true stories. It just requires someone like Wyatt to keep the faith, for as long as it takes.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
stone maps
Come on tell the truth twyat billy bobble wobble don,t your hemaroids feel like they could use a good dose and dabbin of axel grease?? Bill
accusations
After reading some of the more recent posts on this subject I am compelled to put my two cents in on one of Wyatts posts. My nane is Matt and I am the son of the "Lou" mentioned above. It is absolutely laughable that my father would have anything to do with "stealing" site, maps, or any other info from a jackass such as yourself. Or to steal anything for that fact..(Wyatt-Blackbeard-or whatever the hell you want to call yourself) He has for many years tried to help all those who called upon him for help with there sites. And as for not finding anything, go to the Ancient Lost Treasures forum, scroll down to (Treasures,Other)and take a look at the post (Any Ideas). Its the 19th one down. That was one he made back in 93. My fathers ideas work-I know-I dig his holes...Matt
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Wyatt Westwood
- Part Timer
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:49 pm
- Location: New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Australia
No News is good News
Last edited by Wyatt Westwood on Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
stone maps
Jim welcome back to the forum! We have a super dupper legendary mine hunter who claims he looked at a map on paper an found all the mexican mines, the lost dutchman mine, and the tucommcari hidden mines. He did this by inventing himself some kino glasses. If you want to protect your eyes from damage reading all the horse bockkey he,s writing on the forum, You need to read it thru kino glasses or colored or carnival glass will work as well. We have been trying to get him to tell us all his great secret,s for finding all these gold mines that he has found.. He expect,s us to beleive all this crap and he was disrespectful to us as well. According to his post,s he has found and claimed all there is to claim... wish you well Bill
Re: the stone maps
Welcome, Jim.JIM HAMRICK wrote:Being a relative newcomer to this site I am not sure how much of what I see posted is just banter between mempers of a group who are seeking treasure or gold in the Superstition or out right hostility among this group.
Please recall the number of people who have died in the mountains, some because treasure seekers thought that they were very close to finding the treasure and wanted no one encroaching on the site. The mountain is dangerous enough on its own and doesen't need any help from irate treasure seekers. In 1957 (I believe) a young lady that I knew lost a husband and brother-in-law in the low foot hills of the range. These two were deer hunting and were trapped by a snow storm and died from exposure so please hold down the rancor as I might some day venture, on three legs, into these mountains and would not appreciate being shot (especialy as I don't beleive there is any buried treasure).
A snow storm on the low foothills of the Superstitions? Yeow - that must have been one cold winter. I've been caught in a snow storm in the eastern part of the range, but it was higher altitude, and only about 6" of snow. Just made things more fun.
There is a lot of banter here, and we get pretty rude with one another sometimes. But what family isn't like that? Those that can't take it don't stay long; those that can, have a good time with it.
Never fear, you are safe in the Superstitions. You undoubtedly know how to handle yourself out there, and there aren't really that many places any more where someone might take a pot-shot at you. Especially if you aren't digging in their favorite place. (I hope).
Who knows, you might find the treasure anyway! I think really we all find it, every time we go out there.
- The Legendary Wiz
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Wyatt Westwood
- Part Timer
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:49 pm
- Location: New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Australia
No News is Good News
Last edited by Wyatt Westwood on Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lou Layton
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:08 pm
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Wyatt Westwood
- Part Timer
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:49 pm
- Location: New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Australia
No News is Good News
Last edited by Wyatt Westwood on Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Shoveling $hit
Billy,
From where I'm sitting the good ship SS Bull$hit with the Legendary and Famous Liar Captain Billy at the helm is the one sinking. Maybe the best thing for you Billy is for you to go down with your ship and website and end this misery for you.
I don’t know what your shoveling but it sure isn’t the truth, your gathering of facts pertaining to me and Lou are way off and not remotely close. If your gathering of facts is anything like your treasure hunting abilities your in trouble.
I’m egotistical….isn’t that like the pot calling the kettle black!!!!!
Have a nice day
Rochha
From where I'm sitting the good ship SS Bull$hit with the Legendary and Famous Liar Captain Billy at the helm is the one sinking. Maybe the best thing for you Billy is for you to go down with your ship and website and end this misery for you.
I don’t know what your shoveling but it sure isn’t the truth, your gathering of facts pertaining to me and Lou are way off and not remotely close. If your gathering of facts is anything like your treasure hunting abilities your in trouble.
I’m egotistical….isn’t that like the pot calling the kettle black!!!!!
Have a nice day
Rochha
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JIM HAMRICK
- Part Timer
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:46 am
- Location: phoenix
- Contact:
stone maps
I do appreciate all of you who took time to answer my post. I am amazed at the number of hits this site gets. It seems that there are many people who think there is lost treasure or a lost mine in the superstitions.
Not knowing all of the history I would like to pose a question, why do so many of you believe there is a secreted treasure or a lost mine in the Superstitions? If any treasure is stashed in the mountain it would or will be the paintings that DeGrazia suposedly burnt.
If one believes that what Sims Ely researched and wrote a book about is based on true facts then there could be a mine. If there is a mine that the Peraltas worked for three generations there should be physical evidence of the mine(it was suppose to be a typical spanish mine of that era in that it was cone shaped) and a large camp area along with corrals for the animals. According to Mr Ely he and Jim Bark searched four decades for it. Mr Ely claimed that ther was a trail three foot wide worn in to the rocks from the hoofs of many animals visable but they could never find a mine. If there was a mine could it perhaps be Gold Field where early accounts said that it was an old mine and had rich surface ore.
Not knowing all of the history I would like to pose a question, why do so many of you believe there is a secreted treasure or a lost mine in the Superstitions? If any treasure is stashed in the mountain it would or will be the paintings that DeGrazia suposedly burnt.
If one believes that what Sims Ely researched and wrote a book about is based on true facts then there could be a mine. If there is a mine that the Peraltas worked for three generations there should be physical evidence of the mine(it was suppose to be a typical spanish mine of that era in that it was cone shaped) and a large camp area along with corrals for the animals. According to Mr Ely he and Jim Bark searched four decades for it. Mr Ely claimed that ther was a trail three foot wide worn in to the rocks from the hoofs of many animals visable but they could never find a mine. If there was a mine could it perhaps be Gold Field where early accounts said that it was an old mine and had rich surface ore.