I've come across a rather interesting discovery in the Supes recently that I believe has some historical significance. For the record, it has nothing to do with the LDM, unfortunately.
My first step is trying to contact Jack Carlson to see if he is aware of it's existence. I haven't been hiking all that much these past couple of years and therefore haven't had contact with Jack for some time. The email address I have for him is [email protected] and I sent a description to him about four days ago and haven't heard back. I'm kind of excited to see what he knows or thinks about it.
Some of you know me enough to believe that I've had personal and email contacts with Jack in the past and if you could help me find out how to get hold of him it would be greatly appreciated by myself and very possibly him too!
Please email me at [email protected]. Thanks.
Maybe you guys can help me???
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Joe Ribaudo
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Jack
Fritzski,
There are a number of people on this forum who believe "I don't know Jack".
In this case, they would be wrong. Never met him, but we have talked on the phone and, like you, traded e-mails.
I will e-mail you his correct address and phone number tonight. He does look in on the site, so he may get in touch with you on his own.
Jack does not have a problem with that information being given out.
Come visit us more often. Your input on trails in the Supes would be invaluable.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
[email protected]
There are a number of people on this forum who believe "I don't know Jack".
In this case, they would be wrong. Never met him, but we have talked on the phone and, like you, traded e-mails.I will e-mail you his correct address and phone number tonight. He does look in on the site, so he may get in touch with you on his own.
Jack does not have a problem with that information being given out.
Come visit us more often. Your input on trails in the Supes would be invaluable.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
[email protected]
Thanks Joe.
Jack finally emailed me back and informed me that he was unaware of this site. Frankly, this blows me away because when I first saw it, I Knew either this place was generally unknown or it was one of the best kept secrets in the Supes. Given that secrets usually don't stay that way for long, I guess I shouldn't be so surprised that it is, indeed, unknown. But given it's location, it is simply amazing to say the least!
I sent Jack some good photos, and am awaiting his thoughts.
Jack finally emailed me back and informed me that he was unaware of this site. Frankly, this blows me away because when I first saw it, I Knew either this place was generally unknown or it was one of the best kept secrets in the Supes. Given that secrets usually don't stay that way for long, I guess I shouldn't be so surprised that it is, indeed, unknown. But given it's location, it is simply amazing to say the least!
I sent Jack some good photos, and am awaiting his thoughts.
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Joe Ribaudo
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The Site
Fritz,
If the site you have discovered is from some time after the 1300s,
it is most likely Kwevkepayas. The Superstitions were considered "too dangerous to enter" by other indian tribes, because of their presence.
The Kwevkepayas were one of four tribes that became known as the Yavapais.
Many people are unaware that it was the Kwevkepaya who were killed in Skeleton Cave. (Skull Cave) Mike Burns (Hoomothya), a Kwevkepaya boy of seven or eight, was captured by U.S. Toops about six days prior to the attack on Skeleton Cave. He was still with the troops during the attack and was dragged into the cave at the end. Eighteen women and children, all wounded, survived.
For more information on the Yavapais and their area of influence, I would recommend "Surviving Conquest: A History of the Yavapai Peoples" by,
Timothy Braatz.
If there was ever an Apache presence in the Superstitions, it would have been the Tontos, and they would have been there at the invition of the Kwevkepaya.
Respectfully,
Joe
If the site you have discovered is from some time after the 1300s,
it is most likely Kwevkepayas. The Superstitions were considered "too dangerous to enter" by other indian tribes, because of their presence.
The Kwevkepayas were one of four tribes that became known as the Yavapais.
Many people are unaware that it was the Kwevkepaya who were killed in Skeleton Cave. (Skull Cave) Mike Burns (Hoomothya), a Kwevkepaya boy of seven or eight, was captured by U.S. Toops about six days prior to the attack on Skeleton Cave. He was still with the troops during the attack and was dragged into the cave at the end. Eighteen women and children, all wounded, survived.
For more information on the Yavapais and their area of influence, I would recommend "Surviving Conquest: A History of the Yavapai Peoples" by,
Timothy Braatz.
If there was ever an Apache presence in the Superstitions, it would have been the Tontos, and they would have been there at the invition of the Kwevkepaya.
Respectfully,
Joe
Best kept secret
Fritzski,
Back 2 or 3 months ago there were a lot of whispers going around about a 65’ shaft some of the guys from the SMHS found and explored in the general area of interest identified in Jenkins’ Lost Lode. The shaft was high up on a small ledge and had a small tripod type head frame over it. If that sounds like what you found, check with Larry Hedrick at the SMHS museum and compare your photos with his..
redison
Back 2 or 3 months ago there were a lot of whispers going around about a 65’ shaft some of the guys from the SMHS found and explored in the general area of interest identified in Jenkins’ Lost Lode. The shaft was high up on a small ledge and had a small tripod type head frame over it. If that sounds like what you found, check with Larry Hedrick at the SMHS museum and compare your photos with his..
redison
Thanks Joe.
As you suspect, it is a native American ruin site. It is very undisturbed with many stone structure remains (circles up to about thigh high), many pottery shards, and most surprisingly, many grinding holes, some with the grinding stones still in them!
But the biggest surprise of all is the location, which for several reasons is really exciting.
As you suspect, it is a native American ruin site. It is very undisturbed with many stone structure remains (circles up to about thigh high), many pottery shards, and most surprisingly, many grinding holes, some with the grinding stones still in them!
But the biggest surprise of all is the location, which for several reasons is really exciting.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Keep It To Yourself
Fritz,
Sounds like you have made a great discovery. There are few people who need to know it's locatiion. I believe Jack will steer you in the right direction.
Someone else who would be interested is: Professor Elizabeth (Betsy) Brandt, who is a Professor of Anthropology at ASU.. You can call her at 480-965-5992 or e-mail her at: [email protected]
A few of her fields of expertise are: Western Apache, linguistics and sacred site protection.
If you can send me some pictures, without revealing the location of the site, I would love to see them.
Good luck.
Respectfully,
Joe
[email protected]
Sounds like you have made a great discovery. There are few people who need to know it's locatiion. I believe Jack will steer you in the right direction.
Someone else who would be interested is: Professor Elizabeth (Betsy) Brandt, who is a Professor of Anthropology at ASU.. You can call her at 480-965-5992 or e-mail her at: [email protected]
A few of her fields of expertise are: Western Apache, linguistics and sacred site protection.
If you can send me some pictures, without revealing the location of the site, I would love to see them.
Good luck.
Respectfully,
Joe
[email protected]
Joe,
First of all I cannot in good conscience take credit for this discovery. In fact it was a friend of mine and his sister(lives out of state) who are novice hikers and know next to nothing about the Supes. They happened to inadvertently stumble across this site about a month or two ago. He then got hold of me and asked if I knew about it. I was understandably a bit incredulous about his description and couldn't believe how something like that could remain under the radar for so many years.
He took me there last week and upon seeing the spot I guess I could understand why probably no one ever really had any reason to venture there. After studying the area for over an hour, I did find a rotten old shotgun shell and an old metal bar. It is easy to imagine a hunter or rancher not even noticing or caring about the site. Other than that, it looked as if the area has seen extremely limited human visitation. As far as I know, the three of us mentioned are the only ones aware of the site and its location. I will keep it that way and attempt only to disclose it to someone such as Jack or your friend Betsy.
I will email you some photos.
First of all I cannot in good conscience take credit for this discovery. In fact it was a friend of mine and his sister(lives out of state) who are novice hikers and know next to nothing about the Supes. They happened to inadvertently stumble across this site about a month or two ago. He then got hold of me and asked if I knew about it. I was understandably a bit incredulous about his description and couldn't believe how something like that could remain under the radar for so many years.
He took me there last week and upon seeing the spot I guess I could understand why probably no one ever really had any reason to venture there. After studying the area for over an hour, I did find a rotten old shotgun shell and an old metal bar. It is easy to imagine a hunter or rancher not even noticing or caring about the site. Other than that, it looked as if the area has seen extremely limited human visitation. As far as I know, the three of us mentioned are the only ones aware of the site and its location. I will keep it that way and attempt only to disclose it to someone such as Jack or your friend Betsy.
I will email you some photos.
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Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
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- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Thanks
Fritz,
Thanks in advance for the pictures. The next best thing to being at such a site, is hearing about it from those who have been there, and seeing pictures that few others have seen.
Your giving credit to your friends for the find shows the kind of man you are. Someone who would be welcome at my campfire any time.
I don't know "Betsy" personally, but I do know about her. I have been interested in Archaeology/Anthropology for many years, and like to keep up with what is going on in the field.
Thank you again.
respectfully,
Joe
Thanks in advance for the pictures. The next best thing to being at such a site, is hearing about it from those who have been there, and seeing pictures that few others have seen.
Your giving credit to your friends for the find shows the kind of man you are. Someone who would be welcome at my campfire any time.
I don't know "Betsy" personally, but I do know about her. I have been interested in Archaeology/Anthropology for many years, and like to keep up with what is going on in the field.
Thank you again.
respectfully,
Joe
Joe,
If you felt like contacting Betsy to see if she was interested. Maybe you could suggest she read these posts and forward her the photos. Otherwise I can email her myself.
PS Please let me know asap whether or not you got the photos (I sent them 4PM Sat), but I'm thinking there may be a problem with file size and if you didn't, Jack may never have got his either.
If you felt like contacting Betsy to see if she was interested. Maybe you could suggest she read these posts and forward her the photos. Otherwise I can email her myself.
PS Please let me know asap whether or not you got the photos (I sent them 4PM Sat), but I'm thinking there may be a problem with file size and if you didn't, Jack may never have got his either.
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Joe Ribaudo
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- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
No Pics
Fritz,
The pictures did not arrive. You are probably correct as to the problem.
You might try sending just one.
I sent an e-mail to Dr. Brandt. From past experience with these folks, I can assure you they will respond, if they get the message. They are often in the field in remote areas, and take a bit of time to return e-mails.
In the event she is unavailable, I would be happy to make some other contacts for you. Jack may be of some help there as well. Most of the people I have had contact with in the past, specialized in Mesoamerica.
You must be a little excited.
Take care.
Respectfully,
Joe
The pictures did not arrive. You are probably correct as to the problem.
You might try sending just one.
I sent an e-mail to Dr. Brandt. From past experience with these folks, I can assure you they will respond, if they get the message. They are often in the field in remote areas, and take a bit of time to return e-mails.
In the event she is unavailable, I would be happy to make some other contacts for you. Jack may be of some help there as well. Most of the people I have had contact with in the past, specialized in Mesoamerica.
You must be a little excited.
Take care.
Respectfully,
Joe